Why the Sacrifices in the Sinai Covenant

[Arial]

Thank you Studyman for your thorough reasoning.

@Sissy, @Arial, and @Grace Accepted and everyone who believes that the law is abolished when Jesus died on the cross, what say you?

BTW, @Studyman,

as you know I don't go through all of Paul's complicated teachings, yet I get to the same conclusion as you do, just by reading what Jesus says. you cannot claim the law is abolished.

Blessings.

Reasonng? It is obvious that he does not understand what he is reading, and has proven time and again, that he leaves off portions of the scriptures he is quoting and avoids all scriptures that say differently from what he is promoting. Then calls everyone else a deceiver. Neither you nor he will hear or accept what we say about the law or make any distinction to law as ordinances for Israel and the law that flows from the character of God, as given in the ten commandments.

Eph 2:14-18 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. He came and preached peace to you were afar off and to those who were near. For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, since you are not under law, but under grace.

Romans 10:4 for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one who believes.

 

[Studyman]

Reasonng? It is obvious that he does not understand what he is reading, and has proven time and again, that he leaves off portions of the scriptures he is quoting and avoids all scriptures that say differently from what he is promoting. Then calls everyone else a deceiver. Neither you nor he will hear or accept what we say about the law or make any distinction to law as ordinances for Israel and the law that flows from the character of God, as given in the ten commandments.

Eph 2:14-18 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. He came and preached peace to you were afar off and to those who were near. For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, (Not "Mans", but God's) which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

You are not a deceiver, the "other voice" of this world you fashion your life after, is the deceiver.

I know you will not answer, but I'll ask anyway, for Meshak's sake.

11 Wherefore remember, that ye (who in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience” being in time past Gentiles in the flesh,(not in Spirit) who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

Who is calling repentant Gentiles the "Uncircumcision"? God or the Pharisees?

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

In the Law and Prophets, when did God ever create a Law that relegated a repentant Stranger (Non-Jew) as "strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world?"

Can you show me the Law of God which created this "partition"?

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, since you are not under law, but under grace.

It is you who omit and bastardize Scriptures in order to prop up Calvinism.

15. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. (That means NO Arial)

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye "yield yourselves" servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

You are a servant to Calvinism, others are servants of Catholicism, others Islam, and still other servants to other religious philosophies of the "other voice" in the garden God placed us in.

I am a Servant of God's Righteousness, having been freed from the sin and deception of the religions of this world you are promoting.

Romans 10:4 for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one who believes.

Amen! There are religions by the dozens in this world I was born into. But I need look no further than the Jesus of the Bible, to know what Doctrines to walk in.

1 John 2: He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

As HE himself teaches.

Matt. 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

That's it Arial. AS the Spirit of Christ of the Bible inspired in His Gospel;

Ecc. 12: 13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

 

[meshak]

Ecc. 12: 13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

There are so many similar verses like this in the OT.

 

[Sissy]

Actually Sissy, as the scriptures teach us.

What I posted.
You choose not to accept the scriptures I posted.

 

[Sissy]

I'm sticking with the Scriptures.

No you're not.
You are refusing to accept the clear teaching that the only one with the righteousness and obedience that saves is the Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 5 KJV
(18) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
(19) For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

HINT: That one ain't you.

 

[Arial]

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, (Not "Mans", but God's) which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

What is wrong with you? Nobody has ever said we are not to do good works. You keep going back to that, something that doesn't exist, to prop up your legalism. You don't follow the law according to the law any more for than Meshak of CF does. Perfect is what is required for the righteousness of God. So, what do you plan to do about all your imperfections? Do you think a holy God accepts I tried my best? Why did He send Jesus then? You have yet to even begin to grasp His holiness and how so very far you fall short of it.

11 Wherefore remember, that ye (who in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience” being in time past Gentiles in the flesh,(not in Spirit) who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

Who is calling repentant Gentiles the "Uncircumcision"? God or the Pharisees?

In this instance "according to the flesh" is not making a comparison between flesh and Spirit. It is used both ways by Paul and others. Here, according to the context of what is being said, it speaks of actual physical circumcision. This was a sign of belonging to the Mosaic covenant with Israel. Thus, they were referred to as the circumcision at times. The physical descendants of Abraham. The Gentiles did not belong to Israel unless they joined themselves to Israel's God, and then they had to be circumcised. It is Paul who is calling them the uncircumcision as a way of expressing his point.

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

In the Law and Prophets, when did God ever create a Law that relegated a repentant Stranger (Non-Jew) as "strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world?"

Can you show me the Law of God which created this "partition"?

Here, Paul extends his point by pointing out the difference in times past between Jew and Gentile in their relationship with God. God gave the commonwealth of Israel the covenants of promise Not to the Gentiles. Eph 2:14-18 shows God is tearing down this partition and how He is doing it. When did the subject of strangers becoming a part of Israel with it's covenants of promise become the point of this discussion? Is it just another distraction.

It is you who omit and bastardize Scriptures in order to prop up Calvinism.

15. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. (That means NO Arial)

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye "yield yourselves" servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

No it is still you who bastardize the scriptures. You address 10,11,12, then quote me giving verse 13But now in Christ Jesus you who sometimes were far off are made near by the blood of Christ. but don't address it, skip 14 For He is our peace. who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us.

As for the scriptures you say I omit---again---nobody is saying we are to sin because we are under grace.

You are a servant to Calvinism, others are servants of Catholicism, others Islam, and still other servants to other religious philosophies of the "other voice" in the garden God placed us in.

I am a Servant of God's Righteousness, having been freed from the sin and deception of the religions of this world you are promoting.

I am the servant to none save Christ. You are a servant to the law, from which you seek to attain righteousness. You are still in the same bondage that Christ came to deliver from. If you are depending on yourself to be righteous---remember "Be PERFECT even as I am PERFECT."

Amen! There are religions by the dozens in this world I was born into. But I need look no further than the Jesus of the Bible, to know what Doctrines to walk in.

1 John 2: He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Well, keep walking. Maybe along the way you will encounter the Jesus of the Bible who takes away sin.

As HE himself teaches.

Matt. 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

That's it Arial. AS the Spirit of Christ of the Bible inspired in His Gospel;

Ecc. 12: 13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

I never said we are not do as Jesus says. Never said we are not to keep the commandments. So---? You think you would have learned by now that trying to annul what I say by using a lie doesn't work.

 

[meshak]

What is wrong with you? Nobody has ever said we are not to do good works. You keep going back to that, something that doesn't exist, to prop up your legalism. You don't follow the law according to the law any more for than Meshak of CF does. Perfect is what is required for the righteousness of God. So, what do you plan to do about all your imperfections? Do you think a holy God accepts I tried my best? Why did He send Jesus then? You have yet to even begin to grasp His holiness and how so very far you fall short of it.

I have rebutted with this reasoning but you are not willing to listen.

why do you repeat the same accusation of SM's claims?

Mine is much easier to understand than SM's because I don't use Paul's teachings.

I use Jesus' word and SM is using mostly Paul's.

And we come to the same conclusion.

But you guys are not accepting any of their teachings.

 

[patience]

I understand the significance, Patience. And God has always required humility and submission from humans. To preach that God gave His Covenant to Abraham, based on nothing Abraham did, is certainly Calvinism at its core. The reason why I don't adopt Calvinism, is because the Scriptures don't support it. At least, if a person considers "Every Word" of God as Jesus instructed.

Gen. 12: 1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: 4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him;

 I never said Abraham didn't have to obey. "I agree that the covenants God made, He made in relationship with mankind and most are set up as - "you do this, I'll do that", i.e. obedience."

Gen. 15:18 "In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:"

"In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram" - vs 7- 17 - the "blood covenant" in which Abram did not participate in any way. The promise of the land to Abram and to his offspring. No one's disobedience, through any of Abram's offspring, would affect this promise - God swore by himself since He had no one greater by whom to swear - he guaranteed it with an oath.

Gen. 18: 18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him? 19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

Gen. 22: 15 And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, 16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: 17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; 18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

Gen. 26: 4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; 5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Matt. 8: 11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

John 8: 39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. (Like Moses, Caleb, Joshua, Daniel, Shadreck, Gideon, Zacharias, Anna, Simeon, and every example of Faith given to us in the Examples God had written for our admonition.)

Acts 13: 26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, (Like Abraham) to you is the word of this salvation sent. 27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.

I don't think you understand the significance of God's Covenant with Abraham and his children.

Again, I have never said anything regarding not having obedience to God.

 

[Arial]

I have rebutted with this reasoning but you are not willing to listen.

I don't recall your rebuttal. What is it.

Why is it that the majority of your post these days are praising SM? Have you forgotten Jesus?

 

[Studyman]

Here, Paul extends his point by pointing out the difference in times past between Jew and Gentile in their relationship with God. God gave the commonwealth of Israel the covenants of promise Not to the Gentiles. Eph 2:14-18 shows God is tearing down this partition and how He is doing it. When did the subject of strangers becoming a part of Israel with it's covenants of promise become the point of this discussion? Is it just another distraction.

The questions I asked, were asked in order to establish Biblical Truth regarding who created the Partition Paul is speaking to. To answer the question, based on what the Scriptures actually say, would be an honest place to start the conversation regarding where this Partition Paul speaks of comes from. In your religion, and "many" others which come in Jesus Name, God is said to be the Creator of this "Partition".So if this is true, then God's Laws would show us when and where God created this Partition which relegated repentant "Strangers" as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world".

Since you can't find any Law in which God is a Respecter of persons in this manner, your just blow off the question, and then go off on my because I asked it.

Nevertheless, it is an important question, so I searched through the Holy scriptures that Paul said were profitable for Doctrine and found the following quotes and Laws of Moses and God regarding the Non-Jew.

Ex. 12: 38 “And a mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle.”

Who were the "mixed multitude" who also followed the Jews out of Egypt? They weren't Jews?

Ex. 12: 48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. 49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

So God didn't create the Partition between Jews and Non-Jews here, when did God create this Partition?

Lev. 19: 33 And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.

How would a Jew "VEX" a Non-Jew? By telling them they "were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world"? That would Vex them, Yes?

I asked you to answer who was it that called the repentant Jews "Uncircumcised", so we can see who was calling Repentant Strangers "Uncircumcised"? You didn't answer. So I continued to seek my answer from God.

34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

So where is this Partition this world's religions that you are promoting, preach God placed between the Jew and Non-Jew, that relegated them as " without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world".

Is. 56: 6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; 7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

So where is this Partition you preach to the World GOD placed between Jew and Non-Jew? I can't find anywhere in God's Law where HE was a respecter of persons.

The Biblical Truth, unless you can present evidence to the Contrary, is that God created no such "Partition", but the Priesthood, which is called the "Circumcision", (for under it the people received the law,) that had Corrupted God's Priesthood Covenant with Levi, did preach such a thing. In fact, it was considered a Law of God. And it was "THEM", the Circumcision, that relegated repentant Non-Jews as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world". Jesus exposed them to HIS People, making a show of them openly, and triumphing over them in it.

As the scriptures clearly say, not just once, but throughout the Bible, that God Gave His Oracles to the Jews, but "ANYONE" who would Love Him, and Serve Him, are Grafted into His Kingdom. Because according to God's Laws "for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people." But not according to the Commandments of Men the Pharisees taught for doctrines.

So if you can find where these Words of God are Void, or not relevant, or somehow a lie, please show me how you come to this doctrine. If you can't find the Scriptures to support your preaching, then perhaps it is your preaching that is false.

 

[Grace Accepted]

Thank you Studyman for your thorough reasoning.

@Sissy, @Arial, and @Grace Accepted and everyone who believes that the law is abolished when Jesus died on the cross, what say you?

BTW, @Studyman,

as you know I don't go through all of Paul's complicated teachings, yet I get to the same conclusion as you do, just by reading what Jesus says. you cannot claim the law is abolished.

Blessings.

Well, I never have made such a claim so it seems that you don't listen to what I have always said about the law. It is immutable, unchangeable and reflects the very character of God. That is why once you break it, you can't unbreak it and you are damned for all eternity, unless...

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

So where is this Partition you preach to the World GOD placed between Jew and Non-Jew? I can't find anywhere in God's Law where HE was a respecter of persons.

He is not a respecter of persons.
That's why your attempts to earn salvation by obeying the law are not respected by him.