• Welcome to White Horse Forums. We ask that you would please take a moment to introduce yourself in the New Members section. Tell us a bit about yourself and dive in!

Why the Sacrifices in the Sinai Covenant

 I never said Abraham didn't have to obey. "I agree that the covenants God made, He made in relationship with mankind and most are set up as - "you do this, I'll do that", i.e. obedience."

"In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram" - vs 7- 17 - the "blood covenant" in which Abram did not participate in any way.

Just as I never participated in the Blood shed by the Christ, or His offer to shed it, in any way.

The promise of the land to Abram and to his offspring.
You don't understand what the "land" is, and you seem ignorant that Abraham was not yet received the Promise.

No one's disobedience, through any of Abram's offspring, would affect this promise -

"But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted."


God swore by himself since He had no one greater by whom to swear - he guaranteed it with an oath.

Again, I have never said anything regarding not having obedience to God.

I'm just pointing out the Bible Facts regarding why God made this oath with Abraham. "“Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.”

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/1-Corinthians-10-7/
 
You don't understand what the "land" is, and you seem ignorant that Abraham was not yet received the Promise.
Pray tell what is the land SM, if the land is not the land?
And that did not affect the promise. "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world."
pointing out the Bible Facts regarding why God made this oath with Abraham. "“Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.”
That statement came to Isaac long after the covenant with Abraham. It is never stated prior to or in the covenant. You are missing the entire purpose of God's covenant with Abraham, what the promise was, and how it was fulfilled. The part you completely leave out is "His faith was counted to Him as righteousness---just as our faith in Jesus is counted as righteousness.

Tell me, why did Abraham obey God even before the covenant was ratified? Because He had faith in God to be telling the truth, and to do what He said He would. When God told him to leave his home and family, Abraham's faith is what caused him to do it. He did not do it and then have faith. His faith was counted to him as righteousness.

I realize you will remain blind to this. If you don't it destroys your entire salvation by obedience religious philosophy of the world. There are many such religious philosophies of the world. In fact, all of them teach that same thing---except for Christianity.
 
I don't recall your rebuttal. What is it.

Why is it that the majority of your post these days are praising SM? Have you forgotten Jesus?
It is quite a funny pairing. If you left the two of them alone for awhile the whole thing would break down since they do not share the same beliefs. This is just one of @meshacks temporary heros but he could easily end up in her scrapyard like The Word, GT, ComingFrom,
Nope, not at all.

But I believe in His word.
😂
 
You really don't think clearly. I explained the entire thing to you by explaining what that scripture was talking about. There was nothing in the scripture about repentant Jews. Strangers in this passage simply means they were not God's people.

Eph. 2: 1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus: 2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. 3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Again, you preach one thing, the Bible preaches another.


He gave His covenants and promises to the descendants of Abraham through Isaac. Deut 14:2 For you are a people holy to the Lord your God, and the Lord has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession, out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth. It was Jesus who tore down this partition by taking salvation to all nations.

Who were Abraham's descendants? Do you believe in the Jesus of the Bible? "If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham."

Is. 56: 6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; 7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

Are these "sons of a stranger" not also Abraham's Children? Were the Saint's at Ephesus not also "Abraham's Children"?

Ex. 20: 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Does this also not include the Stranger who Joins himself to the Lord?

Gal 3:26-29 non-Jews were always able to have God as their God,

That is the truth Arial. That is what God's Word says from the beginning to the end. Duet. 7 doesn't diminish that Truth even a little bit. But the Jews, that is "The Pharisees" AKA, the Circumcision, taught that Gentiles, even the Saints at Ephesus, "were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:"

So in your perpetual attempt to justify yourself, you talk in circles. The Biblical Truth is, "NO ONE PERSON" ever born is "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:" But to have hope, one must accept Paul's teach, both Jew and Gentile. Here is what Paul, who used to be snared by the "Circumcision" which persecuted the Church of God for centuries teaches the Gentiles in Ephesians by the revealtion of Christ Himself..

Acts 26: 19Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:

20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

This is the exact same Gospel Isiah taught to the Stranger that you refuse to acknowledge.

but they had to be circumcised and were obligated to keep all of God's Law, just as Israel was.

We are still required to be circumcised, in the context in which it was commanded. A context the "circumcision" refused to acknowledge.

Duet. 10: 16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked. 17 For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward: 18 He doth execute the judgment of the fatherless and widow, and loveth the stranger, in giving him food and raiment. 19 Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

Paul was of the true Circumcision.

2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. 3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Philippians-3-4/

I didn't blow off the answer. You asked a question about something that wasn't true and wasn't even on the table. "Repentant strangers." Paul wasn't talking about and never said repentant strangers.

The "Saints in Ephesus were most certainly repentant, your Calvinism notwithstanding.

This Lev passage is not about the partition. We see the partition made by God in Deut 7:6-8 as well as other places.

Your false interpretation of Duet. 7, doesn't make God's Promises to the Stranger Void. As you yourself had to admit, the Strangers of the World and the Jews, had the same requirements of God. It was the "circumcision" who created the partition.

If you believed Paul over your adopted religion, you would know this. As it is to this day, at least according to Paul.

Rom. 2: 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Again, God wasn't the one that placed the partition between Jew and Gentile, the Priesthood who taught for doctrines the Commandments of men, created the Partition. And Jesus made a show of them openly, by exposing their doctrines and commandments as from man and not from God.

It's right there in your own Bible, it's just that the religion you have adopted, doesn't teach it.
No one called repentant strangers anything in that passage. Uncircumcised in this instance is referring to non-Jews. Those not of the circumcision. Eph 2:11 Therefore remember that one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called the uncircumcision by the uncircumcision

This is simply deceptive twisting and changing of Scriptures. Here is what Paul said. " who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

In other words, the corrupt religion of the Jews called the Gentile Saints in Ephesus "Uncircumcised" and "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world".

But Jesus made a show of these frauds, and their laws.

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

The same Prophets I have been quoting, but you refuse to acknowledge.


When it speaks of strangers in Eph 2 it is not talking about the stranger that joins himself to Israel, but to all who were outside Israel, therefore strangers to the covenants and promises---without God.

The Saints of Ephesus were not outside Spiritual Israel, but were the true descendants of Abraham. I can show you the scriptures, but it is you who either accepts or rejects them.

Deut 7:6-8

Deut 7:6-8

Deut. 7: 6 For thou (Descendants of abraham) art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth. 7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people: 8 But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt. 9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

Stranger who Joins himself to the Lord, and the Homeborn that Joins himself to the Lord. "For there is no respect of persons with God."

Your unbelief doesn't make the Word of God Void.
 
Pray tell what is the land SM, if the land is not the land?

Whatever it is, Abraham was given the promise, but has not yet received it.

Heb. 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

And that did not affect the promise. "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world."

And yet: "The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

One way or another, the Lamb of God takes away the sins of this world.

That statement came to Isaac long after the covenant with Abraham. It is never stated prior to or in the covenant. You are missing the entire purpose of God's covenant with Abraham, what the promise was, and how it was fulfilled. The part you completely leave out is "His faith was counted to Him as righteousness---just as our faith in Jesus is counted as righteousness.

I don't prescribe to this world's definition of faith that you promote. God defines Abraham's Faith in this way. " Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws."


Gen. 22: 16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: 17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;

18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

This is what Faith is Arial. Faith is being a "Doer" of the Sayings of God, not a hearer only, like Abraham. And those who "do the works of Abraham" are Abraham's Children, and heirs to the promise. At least according to the bible.

Tell me, why did Abraham obey God even before the covenant was ratified?

Why does anyone obey God? Because of Belief, Respect, Honor, Humility, Honesty, Love. And why do people disobey God? Because of lack of belief, lack of respect, lack of honor, lack of humility, lack of honesty, lack of Love.

James sheds light on this truth.

James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. 23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: 24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. 25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed. (The Blessing of Abraham)

Because He had faith in God to be telling the truth, and to do what He said He would. When God told him to leave his home and family, Abraham's faith is what caused him to do it. He did not do it and then have faith. His faith was counted to him as righteousness.
Yes, His Belief, his respect, his Honor, his Honesty, his humility, his Love, was accounted unto him as righteousness and he was Blessed.

While Cain's lack of belief, lack of honor, lack of honesty, lack of humility, lack of Love, was accounted to him as "Unrighteousness" and he was cursed.

Rom. 4: 12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

I realize you will remain blind to this. If you don't it destroys your entire salvation by obedience religious philosophy of the world. There are many such religious philosophies of the world. In fact, all of them teach that same thing---except for Christianity.

I'm not blind to Calvinism. I understand it perfectly, that is why I am not snared by it, as so "many" who comes in Christ's Name are snared.
 
It is quite a funny pairing. If you left the two of them alone for awhile the whole thing would break down since they do not share the same beliefs. This is just one of @meshacks temporary heros but he could easily end up in her scrapyard like The Word, GT, ComingFrom,
I think she is subject to "crushes". Over on TF she would get upset if CF was nice to someone she didn't like.
 
How is what I am preaching different from this? Are you again working off the false assumption, and frequent accusation, that saved by grace through faith means don't keep the commandments or that we are not to live our lives in a way that is pleasing to God? Did you notice the words "grace", "blessed us with all spiritual blessings", "in Christ"? Or does your religion of the world skip right over them to get to the good part. The part you twist to fit your religion of the world that promotes salvation by works of obedience.
Who were Abraham's descendants? Do you believe in the Jesus of the Bible? "If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham."
Abraham's descendants are those who have faith in the person and work of Jesus (who He is and what He did), just as Abraham had faith in God and THEREFORE OBEYED HIM. Jesus died in the place of the sinner, paying the debt their sin owed by a just God. Paying it. In full. Saving them utterly by His PERFECT righteousness. That pretty much leaves you out as of this moment.
Nobody was talking about the stranger who joins himself to Israel. Paul wasn't in Eph, I wasn't. Only you are because you can't actually address what is being said, not by me, not by Paul, without pulling the rug out from under your entire works for salvation religion of the world. If you think I don't notice that, you should be able to discern that by the fact that I have mentioned it three times.
Ex. 20: 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Does this also not include the Stranger who Joins himself to the Lord?
No one is talking about the stranger who joins himself to the Lord. Paul certainly wasn't in the scriptures we are discussing in Eph. You have neglected the most important commandment Jesus gave. "Believe in me (and you will have eternal life.) Also the one where He said "Be perfect, even as I am perfect."
 
Back
Top