I've told you before, but you don't listen.Nevertheless, Adam ate the fruit. Are you saying Adam committed suicide? Or is it that Adam really didn't believe God?
I know you don't listen to God.Say no to what? You are super moderator and a super administrator and a Gold Contributor. Should you not have more than sophomoric, juvenile and petty insults?
Or are you one of those "do as I say, not as I do" kind of fella's?
Allow me also, to step in here, and remind you what God says.
If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword:
for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.
Isaiah 1:19-20
And He will throughly purge His floor, and will gather the wheat into His garner;
but the chaff He will burn with fire unquenchable.
Luke 3:17
Now if the ministry of death, carved in stones, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses' face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory?My covenant will I not break,
nor alter the thing that is gone out of My lips.
Once have I sworn by My holiness that I will not lie unto David.
His seed shall endure forever, and His throne as the sun before Me.
Psalm 89:34-36
I'd like to step in here and say that in this instance, I believe Arial is speaking about the blood covenant in Gen. 15:7-21. In a blood covenant the parties involved walk between pieces of bloody animals to cement a covenant. In this case, a deep sleep fell on Abraham and "a smoking fire pot and a flaming torch passed between these pieces" - God alone, walked between the pieces basically making a covenant with Himself guaranteeing that Abraham and his descendants would get the land promised them. NOTHING would be able to break this covenant that God made with Himself for Abraham and his descendants. God acted alone in this blood covenant.
I agree that all covenants are made by God. I agree that the covenants God made, He made in relationship with mankind and most are set up as - "you do this, I'll do that", i.e. obedience. With mankind's propensity to sin or break covenants, the blood covenant was unique in that God swore by Himself since He had no one greater by whom to swear - insuring that this covenant CAN NOT and WOULD NOT be BROKEN in any way.I appreciate your thoughtful reply. Nevertheless, there would be NO "Blood Covenant" if Abram had not "done" "As the Lord had spoken" in Gen. 12. Had Abraham chosen to refuse the instruction of God, like Adam and Eve did, there would be no "Covenant" with Abraham. And it is also prudent to acknowledge Jesus' Words regarding who Abraham's descendants are. The Mainstream Preachers of Jesus' Time claimed to be Children of Abraham, and thus "Heirs to the Promises" you are referring to. But here are the actual Words of the Lord's Christ in response to their Claim.
John 8: 39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the "works" of Abraham.
Also, it seems prudent to point out that God Himself told Isaac why God chose Abraham to give this Covenant to.
Gen. 26: 4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; 5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
So I agree that all biblical Covenants made by God, are HIS alone. That God's acted alone in giving His Covenants. That God's instructions are His instructions alone, and the promises HE makes are HIS Promises. But God obviously doesn't make HIS Covenant's with everyone. And there was a reason why God made His Covenant with Abraham and not someone else. And God tells us Himself what that reason was.
So if a person rejects, or omits these Biblical Truths from their religion, then how can they possibly understand what happened on Mt. Sinai? The truth is, they can't.
Why do you determine your religious philosophy based on what ifs, instead of what the Bible gives as historical facts? Why do your find it necessary to always exalt law over faith, and put the law before faith? God does as He pleases. Do you think God was looking around for someone worthy to covenant with, and found Abraham? And wouldn't your view conclude that God could not actually make the covenant until after Abraham had proven his obedience to do what God said to do and go where God said to go. God made the covenant first, and added no conditions to it. Then He told Abraham what to do. Because Abraham had faith in God he obeyed.Nevertheless, there would be NO "Blood Covenant" if Abram had not "done" "As the Lord had spoken" in Gen. 12. Had Abraham chosen to refuse the instruction of God, like Adam and Eve did, there would be no "Covenant" with Abraham. And it is also prudent to acknowledge Jesus' Words regarding who Abraham's descendants are. The Mainstream Preachers of Jesus' Time claimed to be Children of Abraham, and thus "Heirs to the Promises" you are referring to. But here are the actual Words of the Lord's Christ in response to their Claim.
You are going to have to come up with a different understanding of that verse (and they do exist) or else you have God contradicting Himself and adding conditions to the covenant that did not exist in the covenant. Remember the example of the four corners of a contract I gave? And also you will have to ignore all the times Abraham didn't obey God, and when his faith wavered and so he tried to make God's promise come true by his own hand. Maybe God is portraying Abraham's heart to Isaac. In much the same way as He called David a man after His own heart, in spite of the very bad ways in which David broke the commandments of God at times. And did not say the same about Solomon.Also, it seems prudent to point out that God Himself told Isaac why God chose Abraham to give this Covenant to.
Gen. 26: 4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; 5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
See above.And there was a reason why God made His Covenant with Abraham and not someone else. And God tells us Himself what that reason was.
So what was the purpose of the sacrifices in the Sinai covenant?So if a person rejects, or omits these Biblical Truths from their religion, then how can they possibly understand what happened on Mt. Sinai? The truth is, they can't.
What Abram could or could not have done is irrelevant. You are making a statement, calling it truth, that is based on what ifs.
Amen .I would offer Christ the Holy Spirt uses ceremonial laws as shadows of things to come to show he is not served by human hands in any way shape or form . God who is Spirit is signified as a lamb slain from the foundation of the world .The six days the father did work .In the Holy Scriptures, the Spirit of Christ instructs us to "test and prove" all things. "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." To take the sermons of "another voice" as truth without comparing it to God's actual Words, would be a Sin, a direct refusal to follow the instructions of the Spirit of the Christ which inspired these Words.
So in the interest of being a Faithful servant of Christ, let's compare the foundational principle of your sermon, to what the Words of God actually say.
Gen. 12: 1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
So here is a commandment from the God of the bible. God spoke to Abram and gave him instruction to "DO" something. That is, leave his comfort zone, his family traditions and religions, to leave the life he was born into.
2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: 3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
Here God is telling Abram what will happen if Abram does as God instructs.
4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.
Here is Abram showing that he believed in God, we know this by his "works".
It's important to remember that God also gave Adam and Eve instruction, and also Cain. The difference between Abram here, and Adam and Cain, is that Abram heard God's Sayings, and was a "DOER" of His Sayings, while Adam and Cain, who also "heard" the sayings of God, were "NOT DOERS" of God's Sayings. Now some imply in their preaching that Abram had no say in the matter. Implying that God gave him the promise and then forced him to leave his father. But it seems if all Scriptures are taken into account up to this point in the Scriptures, God instructs men, and if they believe Him, they obey. If they don't believe Him, they will not obey. Abram believed, and we know this by his "works". Adam and Cain did not believe, and we know this by their "works". And so the Scriptures about God "Who will render to every man according to his deeds:" are proven true from the very beginning.
Let's continue.
Gen. 17: 1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. 2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.
Here again, God is giving Abram instruction and explaining what will happen if Abram follows the instruction. If Abram doesn't believe God, he will "Not DO" as God instructs. If Abram believes God, he will "DO" as instructed, his obedience being the "works" that proves his belief/faith.
Gen. 18: 18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?
19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.
Again, God knows the end from the beginning. He knew that Abraham would "DO" as instructed "so that" God could fulfill HIS Promise to him. Did God "make" Abraham obey as the founding principle of your sermon implies? Or did both Abraham and God enter into a free will Covenant in which both parties had obligations to each other. One party, God, who provided the instruction and promises, and the other party, Abraham, who was obligated to believe God, in order to receive the promises.
And what does the Holy Spirit of God who inspired these Scriptures tell us happened between God and Abraham? He tells us in His Instruction to Abraham's Son.
Gen. 26: 2 And the LORD appeared unto him, and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of:
Here was the instruction again.
3 Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father; 4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
And here is the Promise again. And why were these blessings promised to Isaac?
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
So what did Isaac "do" after he heard these sayings of God? Was he a "hearer" of God's sayings only, or did he hear, and was also a "DOER", like Abraham?
6 And Isaac dwelt in Gerar: (as the LORD had spoken unto him)
As Jesus Himself said "If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham."
So there are many more Scriptures which show the "works" of Faithful Abraham, but to keep the post shorter, I have only posted a few.
Therefore, the founding principle of your sermon regarding the agreement or covenant between God and Abraham, " in which only one of the parties has the responsibility to act.", is proven untrue. According to what is actually written, not only did Abraham have a responsibility to listen and be a "doer" of God's Sayings, he did, and "Because of his works", Isaac and his seed was blessed.
There is another foundational pillar of your seron that needs addressed. I will address this on a different post. I understand you cannot accept these things, but for others reading along, I post this perspective so that they might be careful not to adopt this world's religious philosophies that are contrary to the Holy scriptures.
I agree that all covenants are made by God. I agree that the covenants God made, He made in relationship with mankind and most are set up as - "you do this, I'll do that", i.e. obedience. With mankind's propensity to sin or break covenants, the blood covenant was unique in that God swore by Himself since He had no one greater by whom to swear - insuring that this covenant CAN NOT and WOULD NOT be BROKEN in any way.
I don't think the concept, the importance, nor the significance that set apart the "blood covenant" is sinking in - it was a separate covenant God did Himself, setting in stone, so to speak, the promise made to Abraham and in this instance, did not require ANYTHING from Abraham which is why a "deep sleep" fell on Abraham.Absolutely. But the Promises were made to Abraham's Descendants. And Abraham's descendants are "those who do the works of Abraham". As it is written;
1Pet. 1: 13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14 As obedient children, (Like Abraham) not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: 15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. 17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
Therefore;
“Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.” (Like Abraham)
"this covenant CAN NOT and WOULD NOT be BROKEN in any way."
The covenant is one sided based on the seed Christ one, not seeds many, fleshly of Abraham. In that empowered by Christ men could obey the voice of God who works in them to both will an do it to the pleasure of the father our God ..Actually, God tells me why HE made His Covenant with Abraham.
Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
It is irrelevant to the covenant of promise, the unilateral covenant. You deny that is was unilateral, and you deny what unilateral means. you deny that there are even different types of covenants. Contrary to all the evidence and reality itself. So how can anything you say be true? This is the very first recorded encounter we have of Abraham and God. Gen 12: 1-3. Then we have Gen 13:14-17. Then Gen 15:1-5. Verse 6 And he believed the Lord; and it was counted to him as righteousness. And then we have the cutting of the covenant and a revelation of future events that Abraham would not experience Gen 15:7-21. God made an additional, separate covenant with Abraham's descendents, a bilateral (conditional upon obedience)concerning that very land.Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
If Abram's obedience is irrelevant, as you are implying, then God wouldn't have told us that his obedience was the very reason why God chose Him to give the Covenant to. Your entire religious philosophy here is based on interpretation.
And does not imply a condition unless you want it to. Even the NT proclaims this covenant with Abraham to not be a covenant of works, just as its fulfillment in the new covenant is by faith not works. That is why Paul says regarding this, "Abraham believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness." When we believe Jesus, that He died in our place for the forgiveness of our sin, we are counted righteous because He IS righteous.You are basing your religious philosophy on the belief that.
Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
Is different than;
Now the LORD had said unto Abram, If you get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: then I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
The difference doesn't exist in context, but it must exist for the preservation of the philosophy you are promoting.
Different covenant and different type of covenant SM.Now the LORD had said unto Abram, If you get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: then I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
The difference doesn't exist in context, but it must exist for the preservation of the philosophy you are promoting.
the same as;
Lev. 26: 3 If ye walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and do them; 4 Then I will give you rain in due season, and the land shall yield her increase, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit.
Is the same as
3 Walk ye in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and do them; 4 And I will give you rain in due season, and the land shall yield her increase, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit.
Just as "Mow my lawn, AND I will give you 20 bucks"
is the same as "If you mow my lawn, then I will give you 20 bucks.
How so? Maybe now we can actually talk about the thrust of the OP. Because just mentioning it isn't talking about it.You are claiming it is irrelevant whether Abram was forced to obey, or if God gave him a command, and Abram chose to Obey. This is probably one of the most important distinctions to make regarding a person's understanding of sacrifices in Mt. Sinai.
Those who are Abraham's true descendants are those who believe that Jesus died in their place, taking the punishment for their sins upon Himself, that they might live, forgiven, clothed in His righteousness. They believe God in this and it is counted to them as righteousness. Are you making the connection or does doing so cost you too much?This is an important part of God's Covenant with Abraham, and especially Abraham's descendants. And according to the Jesus of the Bible, who are Abraham's descendants?
John 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
So the "heirs", that is, those to whom the promises were made, are not determined by only God. But by the "Works" of men. AS it is written all over the place "Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
I will put this in caps and maybe you will be able to hear this time. ONLY GOD WAS RESPONSIBLE TO FULFILL THE PROMISE HE MADE. THAT IS WHAT UNI (ONE) LATERAL (WAY). IT REQUIRED NO QUID PRO QUO FROM ABRAHAM. IT WASN'T IN THE "CONTRACT."Therefore, it seems important to qualify your religious statement "This covenant was unilateral, meaning it was an agreement between two parties, God and Abraham, in which only one of the parties has the responsibility to act. But according to Scriptures, Both Parties have a responsibility to act in God's Covenant with them. God has a responsibility to instruct men "in the way that they should go", and men have a responsibly to not only "hear" God, but to be "doers" of His Sayings, as was Abraham. Those men who are "doers" of His Sayings, are the descendants of Abraham, and "heirs to the promise". As Jesus tells us in the scripture I posted.
Those who have the faith of Abraham, and do the works of THEIR covenant with God, in regards to OT Israel. And those in the future who were both Jew and Gentile, who believed what I have already said about Jesus. And your addition of (Like Abraham) is just that, an addition, and is not valid.Absolutely. But the Promises were made to Abraham's Descendants. And Abraham's descendants are "those who do the works of Abraham". As it is written;
1Pet. 1: 13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14 As obedient children, (Like Abraham) not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: 15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. 17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
Abraham was not without spot or blemish, but for his faith that was counted as righteousness.“Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.” (Like Abraham)
Yes, let's do that.Let's see what is actually written.