What Is the Book of Romans All About?

[Arial]

When a person becomes born again of holy spirit, he has two natures to choose from. The old man and the new. We are to put off the old man and put on the new. We are to change our behavior to the nature of the new man, the Christ in us.

Ridiculous.

 

[Arial]

@Sissy
Below is a series of quotes that I would like to clear up, as I see where I was addressing "being born in Adam" as to Jesus' sin nature, in my mind, and stated it as "not descended from. The first one is T's post I was responding to.

One key is that Jesus was rightly related to death because he was a descendant of Adam and inherited his fallen nature.

Jesus was not a descendant of Adam. His Father is God.

The genealogy of Jesus (Luke 3:23-38) says He was a descendant of Adam.

So I withdraw my statement that Jesus was not a descendant of Adam and state it properly. Jesus did not inherit a sin nature from Adam.

 

[Arial]

@7thMoon regarding post #49. Responding to your I left it at that one word to avoid getting into a convoluted never ending discussion over the statement, in which scriptures are pulled out of context and improperly applied and quoted over and over. It was rather muddied thinking.

 

[7thMoon]

@7thMoon regarding post #49. Responding to your I left it at that one word to avoid getting into a convoluted never ending discussion over the statement, in which scriptures are pulled out of context and improperly applied and quoted over and over. It was rather muddied thinking.

It is interesting how Paul is so poorly translated and misunderstood; you can claim anything about him.

 

[patience]

Greetings again patience,

Mary was his mother, and like begets like. God as his father did not eliminate Mary's contribution to the conception and birth of Jesus. Jesus was a descendant of Adam after Adam and Eve had sinned, but he was destined to be the seed of the woman who would overcome all aspects of sin introduced by the initial reasoning and words of the serpent Genesis 3:15. Jesus had sin nature but never sinned Romans 8:3, Hebrews 2:14, he overcame the lusts of the flesh. Sin occurs when the lusts are conceived, not when they are rejected James 1:14-15. Jesus overcame the lust for food by his previous meditation on the word of God in the first temptation in the wilderness.

Kind regards
Trevor

Hi Trevor,

Correct, God as his Father did not eliminate Mary's contribution - she carried the child for nine months and gave birth to Jesus. Yes, he was a descendant of Adam through Mary and destined to be the seed of the woman in Genesis 3. BUT Jesus did not inherit the "fallen nature" of mankind.

Or are you saying, in so many words, that Jesus inherited the "fallen nature" through Mary? Mankind's bloodline comes through the male when they father a child which is why when no sons are born the family line (or family name) comes to an end. If Jesus inherited "fallen nature", he could not have been offered as a "lamb without spot or blemish" - he would be marred.

 

[Mr G Lee]

his seems to be loaded with a particular theology "faith alone", which has a semblance of truth but is not the full story.

The faith of Christ is loaded with his "labor of love", In that way "faith is a work ".

The faithful law "let there be" and the testimony "it was good."

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them

Two working as one word ( law and to the testimony) two is the witness God spoke.

God working in mankind to both reveal his will and empower mankind dead in ther tresspass and sin to perform it .

 

[Sissy]

Greetings again patience,


Mary was his mother, and like begets like. God as his father did not eliminate Mary's contribution to the conception and birth of Jesus. Jesus was a descendant of Adam after Adam and Eve had sinned, but he was destined to be the seed of the woman who would overcome all aspects of sin introduced by the initial reasoning and words of the serpent Genesis 3:15. Jesus had sin nature but never sinned Romans 8:3, Hebrews 2:14, he overcame the lusts of the flesh. Sin occurs when the lusts are conceived, not when they are rejected James 1:14-15. Jesus overcame the lust for food by his previous meditation on the word of God in the first temptation in the wilderness.

Kind regards
Trevor

Hi Trevor,

Correct, God as his Father did not eliminate Mary's contribution - she carried the child for nine months and gave birth to Jesus. Yes, he was a descendant of Adam through Mary and destined to be the seed of the woman in Genesis 3. BUT Jesus did not inherit the "fallen nature" of mankind.

Or are you saying, in so many words, that Jesus inherited the "fallen nature" through Mary? Mankind's bloodline comes through the male when they father a child which is why when no sons are born the family line (or family name) comes to an end. If Jesus inherited "fallen nature", he could not have been offered as a "lamb without spot or blemish" - he would be marred.

Here is where I have an exception to both comments.
I do not see Adam & Eve having a changed "nature" (ie. sin nature or fallen nature).
I see them as having the same nature they had from the start (ie. that they could choose to rebel or not).
YHWH created them with that choice and all of mankind has had the same choice.
I think YHWH always knew that created man could never be a perfect sinless one as He.
Which is why YHWH the Son, the uncreated, became flesh.

But that's just me and the way I understand it.

 

[patience]

Here is where I have an exception to both comments.
I do not see Adam & Eve having a changed "nature" (ie. sin nature or fallen nature).
I see them as having the same nature they had from the start (ie. that they could choose to rebel or not).
YHWH created them with that choice and all of mankind has had the same choice.
I think YHWH always knew that created man could never be a perfect sinless one as He.
Which is why YHWH the Son, the uncreated, became flesh.

But that's just me and the way I understand it.

Truthfully, I don't like the terms "fallen nature" nor "sin nature" either - when Adam sinned, he brought the condemnation of sin and death - sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin - for the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation (Romans 5) - that is what mankind inherited. We were "made sinners" by Adam's transgression. We were separated from God and needed to be reconciled.

I agree that Yahweh created them having a choice to obey or not obey and all mankind has choices to make - knowing good and evil. (Gen. 3:22)However, I do not believe that God had to become flesh in order for a man, one in whom God worked mightily, to be our atoning sacrifice. Through one man, the first Adam, many were made sinners = Adam - disobedience. Through one man, the last Adam, many were made righteous = Jesus, the Messiah - obedience. (Romans 5)

That is what I believe scripture to say.

 

[Arial]

It is interesting how Paul is so poorly translated and misunderstood; you can claim anything about him.

And they do, that's for sure.

 

[shroom]

Ridiculous.

@7thMoon regarding post #49. Responding to your I left it at that one word to avoid getting into a convoluted never ending discussion over the statement, in which scriptures are pulled out of context and improperly applied and quoted over and over. It was rather muddied thinking.

I would post scriptures supporting what I stated, but you view them as convoluted, out of context, improperly applied, repeated, and muddied.

You hold that attitude about anything that does not align with Reformed theology.

 

[shroom]

It is interesting how Paul is so poorly translated and misunderstood; you can claim anything about him.

And they do, that's for sure.

Indeed they do.

Now... Who is "they?" lol

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Arial and patience,

Jesus did not inherit a sin nature from Adam.

BUT Jesus did not inherit the "fallen nature" of mankind.
Or are you saying, in so many words, that Jesus inherited the "fallen nature" through Mary? Mankind's bloodline comes through the male when they father a child which is why when no sons are born the family line (or family name) comes to an end. If Jesus inherited "fallen nature", he could not have been offered as a "lamb without spot or blemish" - he would be marred.

I have given a few Scriptures in Post #49, Genesis 3:15, Romans 8:3, Hebrews 2:14 and James 1:14-15 in support of the view that Jesus inherited the fallen sin nature of Adam. Your concept of genealogy does not fit the reality that children inherit from both parents, and on Mary's sided it was not all bad, as she was most probably the most faithful woman that ever lived, and she in some way inherited the character of David, the man after God's own heart. Jesus was spotless because he never sinned, and he overcame the lusts of the flesh through the word of God and meditation, and as such he is the captain of our salvation, he is our example. He was preeminently placed in this position in order to overcome sin and open the way to salvation.

Kind regards
Trevor