Thanks.It is ok with me---as long as it doesn't go so far into the differing views of end times and Israel's place in them and the parsing of Revelation, so as to belong in another category.Once started, sometimes that is hard to avoid. I would be interested in @Bladerunner response to your response. And we will go from there.
ok, I did not read much of the thread...although I should do....I thought you was referring to Israel as the ONE nation that was scattered to the world and the only nation among many that has become a nation again after nearly 2000 years
when one starts changing or believing in the certain passages of the Bible, then there is nothing in the Bible that can be believed.
I do not accept the "faith alone" concept.
I believe that Jesus died for us, on our behalf, not instead of us.
Fairly obscure - application? Also we do need to "start .... believing in the certain passages of the Bible" -what do you mean by this? I consider that we need to start believing ALL the passages of the Bible.
To put "faith alone" into its proper perspective: that does not mean that faith is alone. For with faith comes automatic obedience, though not complete instantly, but increasing over time by the work of the Holy Spirit and the believer's emersion in the word, which identifies obedience. A person has been changed on the inside, by God through the Holy Spirit, breaking down that wall of enmity with God that we have by nature. So, what else is needed IYO?
He did die on behalf of us, but the Bible also refers to His work on the cross as Him being a propitiation (the action of appeasing God's just wrath against sin,) an atonement, (payment of sins) a substitution, (the action of replacing someone for another person.) Is this what you deny the Bible is saying? If so, what does it mean by these words?
if you change one passage from what God has said in it then nothing else in the Bible can be considered correct. It is either you believe that Jesus/GOD authored the Bible and has preserved it for all generations or you believe that Man is greater than GOD and can change it according to His worldviews and/or lifestyles and GOD will take them right in to Heaven. In Rev, and Deu, he warns those who change, remove or add to His words, Judgement will not be kind to them....
A brief response to your posts due to time constraints. Yes, I can agree with this but I do not hold to the view that we have the Holy Spirit within. we have the product of the Holy Spirit, the faith that comes by means of hearing the Word of the Gospel and all of the Word.
I would need to give more time on this, but I would compare the use of the same word for the Mercy Seat in Hebrews. There is no hint of appeasing God's wrath. Christ was the acceptable sin, trespass, burnt, peace offering.
The concept of ransom needs to be correctly applied. Jesus does not pay our sins. His sacrifice is our means of release from sin and death. He opens the way.
God does not punish the innocent and let the guilty free. That is not justice, and the heart of the salvation is the establishment and declaration of God's righteousness, revealing that he is righteous, just, even while granting mercy to those who have sinned Romans 3:25,26.
I hope that the above is sufficient for starters.
What passage do you want to change, or what passage am I changing?
In the OT, the Holy Spirit was around the people who believed with the exception of a few noted indivduals. Here in ISA 63:11, God tells us that He put His Holy Spirit "within"Moses...""Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?"
No, I have not changed, deleted or added to the Word. I disagree with your interpretation of this same Word.
This says the Apostles were filled with the Holy Spirit. The 3000 received the Holy Spirit gifts.
and what does His... WORD say: "They ALL" everyone there received the Holy Spirit.. all three thousand of them.
This is to some extent your interpretation of what the Word says, part of your pontification. I consider what they received was the Holy Spirit gifts, and our reading at our meeting this morning was 1 Corinthians 12 which helps to explain the various gifts which were given. Not all had tongues, healing and prophesying, but different individuals had different gifts. The purpose of this diversity was not only for their own benefit, but for the benefit of the whole congregation.
The Holy Spirit does indeed give gifts to men but He also indwells them for the continuous work of illuminating their understanding of the scriptures and for progressive sanctification. 1 Cor 3:16; 1 Cor 6:19; 2 Tim 1:14; Rom 8:11. The Bible often says the Holy Spirit indwells the believer.
Col 1:19-20. What do your think it means that peace was made by His blood shed on the cross? Why was there no peace between man and God, and what was our certain judgment were it not for the cross? To face the wrath of God. Against what? Sin. Is God just, perfectly so, and always? Did He not pronounce a penalty on sin and the sinner? Did Jesus take this penalty even though He had done nothing to deserve it? Was this simply a human sacrifice that God accepted? Or was Jesus actually accomplishing something when He died in our place? I say yes. I say He in actuality met justice against the sins of His people (those God would give Him) so that God could extend eternal (not temporary) mercy on them without His justice being compromised.
How is this, not this below?