What Is the Book of Romans All About?

[Arial]

Greetings again Arial and patience,


I have given a few Scriptures in Post #49, Genesis 3:15, Romans 8:3, Hebrews 2:14 and James 1:14-15 in support of the view that Jesus inherited the fallen sin nature of Adam. Your concept of genealogy does not fit the reality that children inherit from both parents, and on Mary's sided it was not all bad, as she was most probably the most faithful woman that ever lived, and she in some way inherited the character of David, the man after God's own heart. Jesus was spotless because he never sinned, and he overcame the lusts of the flesh through the word of God and meditation, and as such he is the captain of our salvation, he is our example. He was preeminently placed in this position in order to overcome sin and open the way to salvation.

Kind regards
Trevor

None of the above scriptures support the idea that Jesus inherited a sin nature. A nature to sin is in itself tainted. Adam was not created with such a nature but one that was neutral so to speak. He had the ability to sin, i.e. make that choice when given the option. That is how Jesus was. Once Adam sinned He now had sin dwelling in him, as Paul says of himself, and by extension all people even those born again (our nature does not change after conversion.) Those scriptures in Romans and Hebrews that you gave could be taken to mean what you say, but IMO that interpretation does not agree with an understanding of the fall of man and what that did to our nature.

 

[patience]

Greetings again Arial and patience,


I have given a few Scriptures in Post #49, Genesis 3:15, Romans 8:3, Hebrews 2:14 and James 1:14-15 in support of the view that Jesus inherited the fallen sin nature of Adam. Your concept of genealogy does not fit the reality that children inherit from both parents, and on Mary's sided it was not all bad, as she was most probably the most faithful woman that ever lived, and she in some way inherited the character of David, the man after God's own heart. Jesus was spotless because he never sinned, and he overcame the lusts of the flesh through the word of God and meditation, and as such he is the captain of our salvation, he is our example. He was preeminently placed in this position in order to overcome sin and open the way to salvation.

Kind regards
Trevor

And I agree with the scriptures you posted.

Was Adam created pure and uncontaminated by sin? He brought sin and death by sin into the world when he disobeyed God. I submit that Jesus was in the same way - pure and uncontaminated by sin and remained that way because of his obedience to his Father. How can one be spotless but yet also be tainted?

Yes, children inherit from both parents certain characteristics. Again, progeny are brought forth through the blood line of males - the life of the flesh is in the blood (Leviticus 17:11). IOW - mankind's bloodline is tainted with a "sin nature", the condemnation of sin and death. Jesus had no "male" as his father but was born of God and therefore was not tainted with that same "sin nature" - a pure, spotless lamb who remained pure and spotless. That's why Hebrews 2:14 says "in the likeness of flesh" - every other human being inherited the "sin nature" from Adam but Jesus, although fully human, was different in that he was untainted by the "sin nature" because God was his father.

 

[Mr G Lee]

Greetings again Arial and patience,


I have given a few Scriptures in Post #49, Genesis 3:15, Romans 8:3, Hebrews 2:14 and James 1:14-15 in support of the view that Jesus inherited the fallen sin nature of Adam. Your concept of genealogy does not fit the reality that children inherit from both parents, and on Mary's sided it was not all bad, as she was most probably the most faithful woman that ever lived, and she in some way inherited the character of David, the man after God's own heart. Jesus was spotless because he never sinned, and he overcame the lusts of the flesh through the word of God and meditation, and as such he is the captain of our salvation, he is our example. He was preeminently placed in this position in order to overcome sin and open the way to salvation.

Kind regards
Trevor

Jesus our brother in the Lord the high priest of the new order who came after the order of Mechisdek a theophany or vision. His flesh signified as sinful was a must. He was born into sinful dying powerless flesh. All die not receiving the propmise of a new incoruptible body.

Romans 8. 3 For what the law (that kills) could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit

A theophany or vision could not do what was required take away the power of the flesh.

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Arial and patience,

None of the above scriptures support the idea that Jesus inherited a sin nature. A nature to sin is in itself tainted.

He had the lusts of the flesh, but always overcame them James 1:14-15.
Romans 8:3 (KJV): For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh.
I believe he came in our nature to overcome sin and open the way for us. I understand that "likeness of sinful flesh or sin's flesh" can be understood as "sameness of sin's flesh", but I would add that this possibly indicates that the flesh he possessed was the same as us, but Sin did not have control of Jesus and he rendered the lusts of the flesh of no power over him, but he condemned Sin (metonymy for the lusts) in his own flesh.

Hebrews 2:14 (KJV): Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
I have highlighted the extra words used to emphasise that he shared our flesh.

Again, progeny are brought forth through the blood line of males

I reject your theory that mothers do not contribute to the "blood line". If anything, babes partake of their mother's blood.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[patience]

I reject your theory that mothers do not contribute to the "blood line". If anything, babes partake of their mother's blood.

Kind regards
Trevor

Hi Trevor,

I do respect your opinion . . . but normally, the mother's blood does not mix with the fetus while in the womb. Oxygen and nutrients are supplied and absorbed through the umbilical cord. Although, sometimes traumatic events, i.e. car accidents, etc. can cause the blood to mix and/or traumatic or hard births can cause the blood to mix. I'm sure God would have protected His son, our savior, His Messiah, the Lamb of God without spot or blemish, within the womb of Mary to develop without being tainted.

 

[Mr G Lee]

I believe he came in our nature to overcome sin and open the way for us. I understand that "likeness of sinful flesh or sin's flesh" can be understood as "sameness of sin's flesh", but I would add that this possibly indicates that the flesh he possessed was the same as us, but Sin did not have control of Jesus and he rendered the lusts of the flesh of no power over him, but he condemned Sin (metonymy for the lusts) in his own flesh.

I would agree. The propmised demonstration of two working (one seen moved by him not seen ) the goverment of peace.

The father strenthened him .

Jesus our brother in the lord said in John 6; that his flesh profits for nothing . What does profit alone is the spirit that quickens giving spirit life. . the very living abiding word of God that works in us (not of us) no power in the dying corrupted flesh .

Many that were trusting in the Jewish flesh walked away with no faith that could please God not seen .

John 6: 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

 

[Mr G Lee]

Hi Trevor,

I do respect your opinion . . . but normally, the mother's blood does not mix with the fetus while in the womb. Oxygen and nutrients are supplied and absorbed through the umbilical cord. Although, sometimes traumatic events, i.e. car accidents, etc. can cause the blood to mix and/or traumatic or hard births can cause the blood to mix. I'm sure God would have protected His son, our savior, His Messiah, the Lamb of God without spot or blemish, within the womb of Mary to develop without being tainted.

I would offer .The life of the flesh is in the blood but literal blood without the essnce of spirit life returns to the field of clay, from where it was formed as a covering. . flesh the largest organ. .

No dead sacrifices .

Literal blood must be poured out to show unseen spirit life was given. Literal blood in its self offers nothing when he come to salvation. God is Spirit. He is not a man as us .

 

[patience]

I would offer .The life of the flesh is in the blood but literal blood without the essnce of spirit life returns to the field of clay, from where it was formed as a covering. . flesh the largest organ. .

No dead sacrifices .

Literal blood must be poured out to show unseen spirit life was given. Literal blood in its self offers nothing when he come to salvation. God is Spirit. He is not a man as us .

For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life. . . . . For the life of every creature (all flesh) is its blood: its blood is its life. . . . (Leviticus 17:11, 14)

In the OT, the sacrifice of animals = the animal was killed, i.e. dead - blood shed and sprinkled upon the mercy seat to make atonement for the sins of the people. Jesus was crucified, shed his blood for the remission of sins (Matt. 26:28) for mankind. He gave his life as a ransom for many (Matt. 20:28) making atonement for mankind, reconciling us back to God.

I know that God is Spirit and not a man.

Other than that, I don't think I fully understand what you are trying to say.

 

[Arial]

He had the lusts of the flesh, but always overcame them James 1:14-15.
Romans 8:3 (KJV): For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh.
I believe he came in our nature to overcome sin and open the way for us. I understand that "likeness of sinful flesh or sin's flesh" can be understood as "sameness of sin's flesh", but I would add that this possibly indicates that the flesh he possessed was the same as us, but Sin did not have control of Jesus and he rendered the lusts of the flesh of no power over him, but he condemned Sin (metonymy for the lusts) in his own flesh.

If Jesus had lusts of the flesh that were opposed to God, that in itself is sinful. It is not the sin but Jesus said if a man lusts after a woman he has already committed adultery with her in his heart. I believe the Bible tells us, not that Jesus came to overcome sin, but to defeat its power to produce death and condemnation (the death of condemnation) in those who are united with Him in His death and resurrection through faith. He did this by paying the penalty they owed, Himself. He had to be without sin or sin in His nature to do this.

Hebrews 2:14 (KJV): Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
I have highlighted the extra words used to emphasise that he shared our flesh.

The Trinity ----which this statement folds into---does not say that Jesus was not fully human, flesh and blood. Which is what this passage is saying. He was flesh and blood as we are.

 

[Arial]

Hi Trevor,

I do respect your opinion . . . but normally, the mother's blood does not mix with the fetus while in the womb. Oxygen and nutrients are supplied and absorbed through the umbilical cord. Although, sometimes traumatic events, i.e. car accidents, etc. can cause the blood to mix and/or traumatic or hard births can cause the blood to mix. I'm sure God would have protected His son, our savior, His Messiah, the Lamb of God without spot or blemish, within the womb of Mary to develop without being tainted.

Sounds logical. I had heard that looong ago, but could not remember the source and did not know if it was true. I have never heard it again until now so it is good you brought it up. Obviously the Bible says our sin nature comes through Adam. even though Eve also sinned. So I knew in some way it passes through the male, as Jesus as man came the way all come---through a woman. Yet His Father is God. This explanation fits right into the "life is in the blood."

 

[EarlyActs]

Sounds logical. I had heard that looong ago, but could not remember the source and did not know if it was true. I have never heard it again until now so it is good you brought it up. Obviously the Bible says our sin nature comes through Adam. even though Eve also sinned. So I knew in some way it passes through the male, as Jesus as man came the way all come---through a woman. Yet His Father is God. This explanation fits right into the "life is in the blood."

The sin nature is not a physical thing. The 'life of the flesh is in the blood' from Torah does not pertain to sin nature.

 

[shroom]

The sin nature is not a physical thing.

Maybe not a physcal thing, but it is a thing. Every human descended from Adam has it. Jesus Christ didn't have it because he is not descended from Adam on his Father's side. Jesus' Father is God.