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Run away from Apologetics! (Don't become a lawyer)

Arial said:
You have repeatedly told me and many others that what they say is only an opinion. The only time you don't do that is if someone presents and utterly unbiblical and unsupportable opinion. In particular the opinion statements are aimed at what is considered traditional Christianity.
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E believes Jesus Christ sinned. That's his subjective belief. It directly contradicts the Bible.
E believes the father of Jesus Christ is Joseph. That's his subjective belief. It directly contradicts the Bible.
E believes "Christ" is a spirit that descended on Jesus. The Bible says Jesus IS the Christ.
 
shroom said:
E believes Jesus Christ sinned. That's his subjective belief. It directly contradicts the Bible.
E believes the father of Jesus Christ is Joseph. That's his subjective belief. It directly contradicts the Bible.
E believes "Christ" is a spirit that descended on Jesus. The Bible says Jesus IS the Christ.
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Beliefs ARE subjective whenever the fact of the matter is unknown. People seem to have no trouble believing that about the beliefs of others, yet many think their own beliefs are somehow different.

Nothing I believe (and your list was fairly accurate) contradicts scripture, just your understanding of it (your beliefs about what it says and what it means).

I have no problem saying my beliefs are what they obviously are— beliefs. Do you say the same about your own?
 
1 Corinthians 10: 29 It might not be a matter of conscience for you, but it is for the other person.) For why should my freedom be limited by what someone else thinks?
 
MatthewG said:
1 Corinthians 10: 29 It might not be a matter of conscience for you, but it is for the other person.) For why should my freedom be limited by what someone else thinks?
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You're free to think whatever you want, Matthew. Nobody can stop you.

But there is truth, and there is error.
 
John 8:31So He said to the Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, you are truly My disciples. 32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

The only one whom can correct Error - is an individual who seeks out truth in faith in worshiping God in spirit and in truth, by studying the scriptures.

There are something that are completely unknowable however one can get close to truth as possible with the help of the Holy Spirit.

John 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
 
Mr E said:
Beliefs ARE subjective whenever the fact of the matter is unknown. People seem to have no trouble believing that about the beliefs of others, yet many think their own beliefs are somehow different.

Nothing I believe (and your list was fairly accurate) contradicts scripture, just your understanding of it (your beliefs about what it says and what it means).

I have no problem saying my beliefs are what they obviously are— beliefs. Do you say the same about your own?
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Then you agree with Matthew that the Bible is completely subjective and if it is objective, it is impossible for anyone to know its objective truth. And nothing stated by anyone ever, is objective truth, but all is subjective. Truth itself is subjective. God Himself is subjective. Well I guess tossing it all out is the best objectivity we can arrive at.

Everything that you say you believe that Shroom listed is against actual objective truth in the Bible. You read the Bible subjectively and selectively. One might as well not read it at all under those circumstances. Everyone should just write their own Bible. What's God got to do with it?
 
MatthewG said:
1 Corinthians 10: 29 It might not be a matter of conscience for you, but it is for the other person.) For why should my freedom be limited by what someone else thinks?
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Why do you keep saying that as though it were an objective truth, when it isn't even logical?
 
Arial said:
Then you agree with Matthew that the Bible is completely subjective and if it is objective, it is impossible for anyone to know its objective truth. And nothing stated by anyone ever, is objective truth, but all is subjective. Truth itself is subjective. God Himself is subjective. Well I guess tossing it all out is the best objectivity we can arrive at.

Everything that you say you believe that Shroom listed is against actual objective truth in the Bible. You read the Bible subjectively and selectively. One might as well not read it at all under those circumstances. Everyone should just write their own Bible. What's God got to do with it?
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I do not know Mr. E's beliefs and we have never talked about them before privately to each other.

I can only speak for myself, in what I believe is true and subjective.

As people wonder at my crazy ideas that I have, well the truth to me is this:

And no one has asked me the simple question of "Matthew what are your overall beliefs in the bible?"

Here are some of my beliefs that are in my heart concerning the bible.

Jesus Christ came down from heaven in the flesh, (At one time being the Word of God). He had a second name Immanuel which means God with us (those of faith in Christ have God with them by and through the Holy Spirit as Jesus did being among them in their day in age). Jesus was born of the virgin Mary. Jesus was also the image of the invisible God, and God was with Jesus by and through the Holy Spirit when he was baptized by John the Baptist in the River Jordan. The Mission Jesus had came to do was to reconcile the Jewish people and the Gentiles to God in which the Jewish people of the Nation of Israel whom was Jesus own people; decided to Crucify him on the Cross, he was buried, and he went to hell / sheol and went and talked to those in the paradise part of Sheol and those who were in prison for three days proclaiming some message to them. Then the Father, raised Jesus Christ up from the dead, and then Jesus had ascended after being with his disciples for awhile. He promised that He was going to come back during his stay with his disciples, and told them to be ready for the wrath of God was going to come down upon the Nation of Israel in that day, and those who were not going to experience any part of it needed to be on watch and on guard, those people where taken away in that day and did not suffer wrath was the Bride of Christ the - 144,000 people of the 12 tribes of Israel in which had not defiled themselves as the other Jewish people whom either were of weaker faith, and those who went to having idols.

Overall I believe that Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life, and that no one comes to Father except through Him, and those who do believe in the death, burial, and resurrection in faith receive the holy spirit, and the spirit of Christ, and that they are born again and they can continue to learn and grow from the teachings of Christ though not everything in the Gospel may pertain to us specifically, and the same thing goes for Paul and his letters, and the other apostles in their letters, there are many things to be learned and gained from reading and studying the bible however because of it's contents, there are many different denominations and there are people who teach in different formats, in which they make out things to be for our day in age, and that is where I start to disagree for the most part.

Those in faith in the Lord Jesus Christ become children of God, and they are given the power to become Sons and Daughters of God by seeking out in faith and living and abiding in Christ which produces what the holy Spirit produce, which is love, peace, gentleness, long-suffering towards other people who may be difficult to get along with, and when we die from this earth we will be given spiritual rewards based on self-sacrifice and love towards God, first over all else, and having love towards others.
 
I also believe that Hell is over and done with along with Satan and his demons, and I believe all people will enter into the Heavenly Realm, there will non-believers on the outside of the kingdom, and there will be those who lived in faith having the ability to enter into the kingdom of the new Heavenly Jerusalem. Yet people do not so readily accept Revelation 22 as a reality which is after all things in Revelation 20 - 21, are done and over with.

Just because someone disagrees with any of these stances that I hold dear as truth,

1 Corinthians 10: 29 It might not be a matter of conscience for you, but it is for the other person.) For why should my freedom be limited by what someone else thinks?

God is able to keep me standing, or he can simply push me over, and there is no need in mans involvement for this as God is the one who works in my individual mind and heart.
 
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