John 17

[Mr G Lee]

Now we seem to have three differing views, and this is different to the view that I and shroom have advocated.

What part of Australia are you from? My wife and I visited it a few years ago. Great place loved the language difference and Pizzas, a layer of shredded ham as the foundation or at least those attached to a gas stations .

Another view. The signified view (.Amil)No literal thousand years .

The thousand years began at the beginning of the last days , a result of the first century reformation (Hebrew 9).

Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

When the Son of man said :"It is finished" The veil was rent there was no Jewish king sitting in the holy of Holies (a abomination of desolation ).Satan fell not having the lying power to deceive all the nations that God is a man as a Jew .(Revelation 20: 3)

The government of Faith, Christ in us working to both revel His will and empower believers to trust God as King of kings not seen. . to the glory of the Father. .

At Pentecost the government of faith was restored to our Father in heaven. . Prophets both male and female from all the nations of the world was restored to the period of Judges .

The understanding was hid from the faithless Jew they thought the prophet Peter was drunk

Acts 2:15-17King James Version For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;And it shall come to pass in the "last days", saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

It was no so when there were kings in Israel .(the abomination of desolation). There was a high wall that separated the Jewish men from the Jewish women .they were not allowed to participate in the ceremonial shadows . and another high wall(15 feet) separated the gentile men and woman form the Jew .they both fell as a purpose when the veil was rent from the top heavenward to the bottom earth ward.

In the foundation of the coming reformation. The un-believing faithless Jews rejected our unseen Father as God as King of kings from reigning over them (1 Samael 8) because of their jealousy of all surrounding pagan nations that walked by sight after the things seen and not faith after the unseen things of God .

The whole period of time is used as a parable, (the signified tongue of prophecy used in parables) ), In that way there were Kings in Israel, God gave them over to do that which they should not.

It has been was restored to the period of Judges .No outward of the flesh used to represent the unseen King of kings and Lord of lords .The first century reformation destroyed all the kingdoms of men. "government of men" Not to be confused with the government our our unseen King of kings. destroying temples made with the dying hand of mankind.

Ezra 6:11-13King James Version11 Also I have made a decree, that whosoever shall alter this word, let timber be pulled down from his house, and being set up, let him be hanged thereon; and let his house be made a dunghill for this. And the God that hath caused his name to dwell there destroy all kings and people, that shall put to their hand to alter and to destroy this house of God which is at Jerusalem. I Darius have made a decree; let it be done with speed.

His living word is still destroying the governments of men . Building up Christian the new nation of nations with the gospel. . his new kingdom of priests men and women from all the nations of the world .

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings Mr G Lee,

What part of Australia are you from? My wife and I visited it a few years ago. Great place loved the language difference

Newcastle, Lake Macquarie, NSW - good weather, best beaches, good lake, not too crowded. I live on 2 acres hobby farm, reasonably quiet neighbours except for a few dogs and ride-on mowers. We speak good Aussie English, fair dinkum.

Another view. The signified view (.Amil)No literal thousand years .

I am not sure why people invent obscure alternatives to the Kingdom of God upon the earth for the 1000 years Acts 3:19,20,21, and I consider Pipiripi's burnt earth the most Scripture denying theory.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Pipiripi]

Greetings again Pipripi,

Thank you for your response. I was being very kind, but the phrase "health the world" is not a correct phrase or not very clear in your partial English. I was not sure if you were saying or denying that the earth would be healthy, or that you were denying that the earth would be healed and hence refreshed and restored, exactly what Acts 3:19,20,21 states, and what the various prophecies also teach. But what I presented does speak about the earth being blessed during the 1000 year Kingdom of God on earth. What I quoted is the opposite to your view that the earth will be burnt and then desolate during the 1000 years. You teach that the earth will be cursed for 1000 years. The greatest King destroying or marring his Dominion - very poor "King Dom"

Kind regards
Trevor

Trevor, I want you to understand just this. Exodus 3:4; Judges 5:13-15. Just these two chapters and verses. Do you see how Holy God is, and also his angels? Even Moses have to put a wall around his face, because nobody can see his face. They be blind.

Now going back to Matthew 24:29-31. Can sin people support this power?

I cannot find yet where that I have read: "This time God end the world with fire" First time with water, and now with fire. So only His elect cannot be destroyed. Just as with the 10 plague of Moses.

I have understand yours teaching much better now.

Many of yours think that Jesus come twice. First time as a baby, then as King of kings. But what they fail to realize is that, when Jesus come as King upon kings, is the day that he will reunited His elect like He has promised to take them to heaven. John 14:1-3.
And His third coming is after the millennium reign in heaven. At this moment God will destroy the wicked and Satan.

My question, if you do believe in a rapture, better words is caught up.
Why Jesus stay in air, and in the mean time His angels is gathering the saved and encounter Jesus in the air. Then at the same time going down on earth in this old unclean Jerusalem and temple, to go rules, so He must fight Satan again on earth. And we all know that Satan was lost twice.
1. In heaven. Revelation 12:7-9.
2. On the cross.
I think that you all believe that Jesus is just a man like us without any power!!

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Pipripi,

Trevor, I want you to understand just this. Exodus 3:4; Judges 5:13-15. Just these two chapters and verses. Do you see how Holy God is, and also his angels? Even Moses have to put a wall around his face, because nobody can see his face. They be blind.
Now going back to Matthew 24:29-31. Can sin people support this power?
I cannot find yet where that I have read: "This time God end the world with fire" First time with water, and now with fire. So only His elect cannot be destroyed. Just as with the 10 plague of Moses.

Not sure what is the relevance of Judges 5:13-15. I believe that fire is a symbol of destruction and judgement, but I see the overall effect of the return of Jesus is refreshing and restoration Acts 3:19,20,21 and blessing, not cursing the earth. All of Egypt was not destroyed as a result of the 10 plagues, but there was severe judgements.

Many of yours think that Jesus come twice. First time as a baby, then as King of kings. But what they fail to realize is that, when Jesus come as King upon kings, is the day that he will reunited His elect like He has promised to take them to heaven. John 14:1-3.

Jesus came as a baby, child, teenager, adult then at 30 he started his ministry for 3 years. He will return as King to rule the earth for the 1000 years. I have already answered your view of John 14:1-3. The faithful are the Spiritual Temple, God the Father's House

My question, if you do believe in a rapture, better words is caught up.
Why Jesus stay in air, and in the mean time His angels is gathering the saved and encounter Jesus in the air. Then at the same time going down on earth in this old unclean Jerusalem and temple, to go rules

I consider that caught up or caught away in clouds is figurative language. Jesus and the faithful become the new rulers over the earth for the 1000 years. I do not accept the Pentecostal or Evangelical "Rapture", which they say is going to heaven, but 1 Thessalonians 4:17 does not say heaven but "clouds" and "Air" or the Aerial and this is where the clouds are over the earth. Nevertheless "Air" and "Clouds" are figurative. Jesus and the faithful will be upon the earth, ruling over the mortal population of Israel and the nations.

I think that you all believe that Jesus is just a man like us without any power!!

No, I believe that Jesus is a glorified man, the Son of God and has been given ALL power.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Pipiripi]

Greetings again Pipripi,

Not sure what is the relevance of Judges 5:13-15. I believe that fire is a symbol of destruction and judgement, but I see the overall effect of the return of Jesus is refreshing and restoration Acts 3:19,20,21 and blessing, not cursing the earth. All of Egypt was not destroyed as a result of the 10 plagues, but there was severe judgements.

Jesus came as a baby, child, teenager, adult then at 30 he started his ministry for 3 years. He will return as King to rule the earth for the 1000 years. I have already answered your view of John 14:1-3. The faithful are the Spiritual Temple, God the Father's House

I consider that caught up or caught away in clouds is figurative language. Jesus and the faithful become the new rulers over the earth for the 1000 years. I do not accept the Pentecostal or Evangelical "Rapture", which they say is going to heaven, but 1 Thessalonians 4:17 does not say heaven but "clouds" and "Air" or the Aerial and this is where the clouds are over the earth. Nevertheless "Air" and "Clouds" are figurative. Jesus and the faithful will be upon the earth, ruling over the mortal population of Israel and the nations.

No, I believe that Jesus is a glorified man, the Son of God and has been given ALL power.

Kind regards
Trevor

But you don't answer my question completely. Answer this question for me. Revelation 20:11-15. When shall this happen? Explain me verse by verse according your teaching. Because this prophecy speaking in two phases.

 

[Mr G Lee]

Greetings Mr G Lee,

Newcastle, Lake Macquarie, NSW - good weather, best beaches, good lake, not too crowded. I live on 2 acres hobby farm, reasonably quiet neighbours except for a few dogs and ride-on mowers. We speak good Aussie English, fair dinkum.

I am not sure why people invent obscure alternatives to the Kingdom of God upon the earth for the 1000 years Acts 3:19,20,21, and I consider Pipiripi's burnt earth the most Scripture denying theory.

Kind regards
Trevor

We began our three and a half week visit in Melbourne then Sidney and last the Gold Coast sufferers paradise and visited Brisbane for a day .

I would ask why a literal thousand years and the idea of rebuilt or reconditioned earth and not a new creation made from non corruptible rudiments?

It seem like Jehovah witness main point . Kingdom hall, Kingdom elders 144,000 etc.

In a similar way Catholic say nothing will change other than a body that will not die and there will still be male and female, Jew and Gentile in the new order

The same Queen mother they call Mary will be in the new .

What happens to the elders of your denomination?

Why would a burnt earth seem to deny scripture?

Why serve a hierarchy of men?

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Pipripi,

But you don't answer my question completely. Answer this question for me. Revelation 20:11-15. When shall this happen? Explain me verse by verse according your teaching. Because this prophecy speaking in two phases.

Yes, two phases. The earlier verses of Revelation 20 are speaking about the beginning of the 1000 years and the verses that you are quoting are speaking about the end of the 1000 years. Here is a sample from the beginning of the 1000 years:
Revelation 20:6 (KJV): Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Revelation 5:9-10 (KJV): 9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
This clearly speaks of the 1000 years, and the faithful will be Kings and Priests over the mortal nations for this 1000 years. These faithful will be upon the earth for the 1000 years. No complete earth burning, no complete destruction of the nations, but a vision similar to Isaiah 2:1,2,3,4 and Zechariah 14:16.

Now you seem to want to bypass Revelation 20:6,7,8,9,10 which clearly speaks about the nations, which you claim have been destroyed. It also speaks about the centre where the faithful are most represented, Jerusalem and the Temple, and the Land of Israel. Then we have the verses that you want to use to ignore all the details of verses 1-10. From verse 11 we have another Judgement Seat and this will be the judgement of those mortal individuals who lived and died in the 1000 years. At the end of this process the larger number of these will be given everlasting life, that is immortality and the others will suffer the second death and the earth will then be filled with God's glory. 1 Corinthians 15:24,25,26,27,28 also speak about the end of the 1000 years and the completion of Jesus' rule over the nations for the 1000 years, and then the abolition of death itself, when God become ALL in ALL.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Mr G Lee,

We began our three and a half week visit in Melbourne then Sidney and last the Gold Coast sufferers paradise and visited Brisbane for a day .

This is a tour of the East Coast from Melbourne to Brisbane. I live 100 miles north of Sydney in the fairly large twin cities of Newcastle and Lake Macquarie, warmer than Melbourne and cooler than Brisbane. I also like the Hunter Valley to our West, opening up large agricultural lands. We are much less crowded than the three State capitals, Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane. Yes, some surfers suffer, but when they suffer they are no longer in "paradise" if they are sun burnt or broken a leg in the surf or had a shark attack.

I would ask why a literal thousand years and the idea of rebuilt or reconditioned earth and not a new creation made from non corruptible rudiments?
It seem like Jehovah witness main point . Kingdom hall, Kingdom elders 144,000 etc.

You use the expression "new heaven and earth" and ignore the detail of what will be accomplished. It was a new heaven and earth after the flood 2 Peter 3:5,6,7. I am not a JW and reject that the faithful will be in heaven for the 1000 years, as both the JWs and SDAs are wrong here. The JWs split up the JWs into this elite almost previously sinless 144,000 in heaven, the only ones that shared the bread and wine while the others could only smell the wine as it passed along the row only once a year, and the rest of this second class JWs will be on earth, and like the SDAs they have the mortal nations destroyed.

What happens to the elders of your denomination? Why would a burnt earth seem to deny scripture? Why serve a hierarchy of men?

Our elders are the appointed arranging brethren and are servants to the individual meeting who select these. We are a lay fellowship and have no central authority and each meeting is independent. We fellowship other meetings that share a similar statement of faith. We have one of these as our recorder or secretary. I am not one of these ABs, but I am the librarian. We do not serve a hierarchy, but we do seek to have acceptable standards.

Speaking about burning the earth as per SDA teaching, I seek to care for my 2 acres and delight in the various plants, fruit trees, gum trees, enormous range of native birds and animals. The SDAs suggest that Jesus is going to come down from heaven and use a flame thrower and destroy all of this for 1000 years. This is completely contrary to the New Creation for the 1000 years revealed in Psalm 8:1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Mr G Lee]

Greetings again Mr G Lee,

This is a tour of the East Coast from Melbourne to Brisbane. I live 100 miles north of Sydney in the fairly large twin cities of Newcastle and Lake Macquarie, warmer than Melbourne and cooler than Brisbane. I also like the Hunter Valley to our West, opening up large agricultural lands. We are much less crowded than the three State capitals, Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane. Yes, some surfers suffer, but when they suffer they are no longer in "paradise" if they are sun burnt or broken a leg in the surf or had a shark attack.

You use the expression "new heaven and earth" and ignore the detail of what will be accomplished. It was a new heaven and earth after the flood 2 Peter 3:5,6,7. I am not a JW and reject that the faithful will be in heaven for the 1000 years, as both the JWs and SDAs are wrong here. The JWs split up the JWs into this elite almost previously sinless 144,000 in heaven, the only ones that shared the bread and wine while the others could only smell the wine as it passed along the row only once a year, and the rest of this second class JWs will be on earth, and like the SDAs they have the mortal nations destroyed.

Our elders are the appointed arranging brethren and are servants to the individual meeting who select these. We are a lay fellowship and have no central authority and each meeting is independent. We fellowship other meetings that share a similar statement of faith. We have one of these as our recorder or secretary. I am not one of these ABs, but I am the librarian. We do not serve a hierarchy, but we do seek to have acceptable standards.

Speaking about burning the earth as per SDA teaching, I seek to care for my 2 acres and delight in the various plants, fruit trees, gum trees, enormous range of native birds and animals. The SDAs suggest that Jesus is going to come down from heaven and use a flame thrower and destroy all of this for 1000 years. This is completely contrary to the New Creation for the 1000 years revealed in Psalm 8:1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9.

Kind regards
Trevor

Thanks, a beautiful drive and country. When visiting Melbourne stayed in a little town of Cheswick near Ballarat it would be my choice .

When I think of a new creation, I think of one that has not been corrupted, dying. The flood did not put on the incorruptible as if it was new
creation. When the Spirit of God who light left on day three the whole creation was corrupted. Not just dying mankind all of the rudiments.

Genesis 6:12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So, when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

In that way all die not receiving the incorruptible and we know not what we will be which is neither male nor female Jew no Gentile.

We do not know Christ after the corrupted rudiment of this world

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

In Genesis 2 It is shown God created two beginning or generations .The unseen generation I would think will be revealed in the new generation .Not reconditioned. No death

Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

 

[Mr G Lee]

Yes, two phases. The earlier verses of Revelation 20 are speaking about the beginning of the 1000 years and the verses that you are quoting are speaking about the end of the 1000 years. Here is a sample from the beginning of the 1000 years:
Revelation 20:6 (KJV): Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Revelation 5:9-10 (KJV): 9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
This clearly speaks of the 1000 years, and the faithful will be Kings and Priests over the mortal nations for this 1000 years. These faithful will be upon the earth for the 1000 years. No complete earth burning, no complete destruction of the nations, but a vision similar to Isaiah 2:1,2,3,4 and Zechariah 14:16

We are a kingdom of priests. There will be no hierarchy of men called the abomination of desolation. The first century reformation has come restoring the order of God no dying human as a representation in the place of God.

The Holy Spirit warns us of those who would seduce Christians saying they do need a man to teach them. We must be careful how we hear or say we hear what the Spirit says to all the denominations

We are reigning with Christ. It's the last days leading toward the end of time under the sun.The thousand represents an unknown in regard to wahtever is in veiw to include time. No signs were given to wonder after

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Mr G Lee,

Thanks, a beautiful drive and country. When visiting Melbourne stayed in a little town of Cheswick near Ballarat it would be my choice .

I have only been in Melbourne for two days, on my way though to Tasmania for four weeks, hitchhiking when I was 17, 60 years ago, with five other mates. I flew from Melbourne to Launceston and return, the only time I have been in a commercial aircraft. I cannot understand the rest of your two posts.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Mr G Lee]

Greetings again Mr G Lee,

I have only been in Melbourne for two days, on my way though to Tasmania for four weeks, hitchhiking when I was 17, 60 years ago, with five other mates. I flew from Melbourne to Launceston and return, the only time I have been in a commercial aircraft. I cannot understand the rest of your two posts.

Kind regards
Trevor

Thanks I can remember my hitchhiking days when I was 17, 57 years ago.

I would think you do understand what it means that the Holy Spirit corrupted the whole creation and the flood did not put on incorruption as if a "new creation". New creation as in all thing we be new, no rebuilt or reconditioned. Therefore we look not a things seen the temporal but to the unseen (new bodies)

Remember as sons of God we are not what we will be . . .

2 Corinthians 5 :16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.