Jesus' God

[APAK]

I have been grated the deepest Grace in the universe because Jesus is infinite and He is eternal life. Only an infinite life can pay the eternal debt of all finite beings. Had my Lord been just a mere man and managed to live a sin free life, the best that could be said of His death is that he could pay for one single sinner and even this would have cost Him his eternal life. But praise God, He was eternal life and thus able to bear the eternal punishment of all of us and still come back to life. Amen

Suffering is not part of Gods will for us. It does not, of itself earn us a thing. It is part of this sinful planet that we dwell on. If we are in Christ even it will work together for our good but it does not make us merit salvation.

I need to point out that the 'suffering' I was specifically focusing on in my post is both for the way of and to salvation, to humble ourselves in heart, mind and soul to submit to God with a contrite heart and repentance of our hopeless condition. And also to suffer for Christ after the point of salvation as we mature and during sanctification.

Before salvation........“through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God” (Acts 14:22).

Do you know the Greek word meaning for strait or straightened is the way or road, actually means it is a struggle, suffering and with pain and pressure because it is not natural for a person to come to God without giving up of themselves, their old man immediately. Faith to belief is a process indeed.

Paul lists several types of suffering — mental, physical, emotional, and spiritual. Each of these are different ways that we can suffer, and when suffering comes, often several of these types of suffering are involved.

“Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ” (Galatians 6:2).

Paul writes in 2 Corinthians 1:4 that God “comforts us in all our affliction, so that we may be able to comfort those who are in any affliction, with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God.”

Paul writes in 2 Corinthians 4:17–18, “This light momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison, as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen. For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal.” We gain more glory via suffering for the will of God.

I would consider a mature believer to always suffer for the the sake of Christ. If the world hated us and they hated Christ first, and we kill off and nail the old man to the Cross, is this not suffering and pain and pressure? I'm not just speaking of physical pain here.

 

[Grace Accepted]

I need to point out that the 'suffering' I was specifically focusing on in my post is both for the way of and to salvation, to humble ourselves in heart, mind and soul to submit to God with a contrite heart and repentance of our hopeless condition. And also to suffer for Christ after the point of salvation as we mature and during sanctification.

So then are you saying that the beloved John was wrong when he wrote, Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

The genius of God is not that He brings circumstances upon us, but it is that He uses every circumstance that comes upon us for our good. Suffering is not the way to salvation, Jesus is and Jesus turns our suffering into victory.

Before salvation........“through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God” (Acts 14:22).

It is a misreading of the text to attribute the entering of the kingdom to tribulation. If that were the case most humans would be saved in the kingsdom. Sinners suffer as much as saints on this mortal coil. Jesus is the way.

Do you know the Greek word meaning for strait or straightened is the way or road, actually means it is a struggle, suffering and with pain and pressure because it is not natural for a person to come to God without giving up of themselves, their old man immediately. Faith to belief is a process indeed.

Straight means narrow compressed but it is not referring to tribulation. It is referring to the fact that it is only one man wide and the man is Christ. There is no other way.

Paul lists several types of suffering — mental, physical, emotional, and spiritual. Each of these are different ways that we can suffer, and when suffering comes, often several of these types of suffering are involved.

“Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ” (Galatians 6:2).

Paul writes in 2 Corinthians 1:4 that God “comforts us in all our affliction, so that we may be able to comfort those who are in any affliction, with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God.”

Paul writes in 2 Corinthians 4:17–18, “This light momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison, as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen. For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal.” We gain more glory via suffering for the will of God.

I would consider a mature believer to always suffer for the the sake of Christ. If the world hated us and they hated Christ first, and we kill off and nail the old man to the Cross, is this not suffering and pain and pressure? I'm not just speaking of physical pain here.

Christ killed the old man, we put him off. Eph 2:5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

 

[7thMoon]

My post was nothing to do with Jerusalem per se and punishment. It was everything to do with genuine personal salvation. And you believe you are not one of the lord's sheep? Well do you want to be or do you think you are not 'good' enough?

I think most people are good, but none on earth are Jesus' sheep. Thus, I think most people who enter the kingdom of God are in the good space, rather than Hades. Those in Hades don't partake until they learn not to be rude and evil.

To answer the second question, we are not important enough to be his sheep, but we can be persons of God even without the correct or infallible belief.

 

[shroom]

I think most people are good, but none on earth are Jesus' sheep. Thus, I think most people who enter the kingdom of God are in the good space, rather than Hades. Those in Hades don't partake until they learn not to be rude and evil.

To answer the second question, we are not important enough to be his sheep, but we can be persons of God even without the correct or infallible belief.

Where do you come up with this stuff?

 

[7thMoon]

Where do you come up with this stuff?

@Grace Accepted told us, Jesus was the gate. I am a full preterist, and I didn't know what the gate was. Jesus was the gate that leads to the life everlasting, where the sheep don't taste of death. It is obvious that the spirits of dead bodies are not sleeping in the power of God, but such is what you believe.

Yes, infallible beliefs don't necessarily produce righteousness.

 

[meshak]

What did Jesus mean when He said "I am the gate. All who enter through me have eternal life."

He is the way to life.

the complete reference, please.

 

[meshak]

I just did, and i will do it again: John 10:9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. They will come in and go out, and find pasture.

John 10:7 Therefore Jesus said again, “Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep.

John 10:1 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the gate but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber.

You guys are always trying to enter in another way. You have admitted as much when you say you don't know if you are saved or not. Anyone who enters in through Christ is saved. I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.

It is disgraceful that you stubbornly refuse to accept what He says. You guys ignore Him. how shall we escape if we ignore so great a salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him. Heb 2:3

what did you prove with these verses?

 

[Grace Accepted]

@Grace Accepted told us, Jesus was the gate. I am a full preterist, and I didn't know what the gate was. Jesus was the gate that leads to the life everlasting, where the sheep don't taste of death. It is obvious that the spirits of dead bodies are not sleeping in the power of God, but such is what you believe.

Yes, infallible beliefs don't necessarily produce righteousness.

What is "sleeping in the power of God." You know most of what you say escapes me. I don't really understand a lot of what you are trying to say. If you will excuse me, I am going to start asking you more clarifying questions.

 

[Grace Accepted]

what did you prove with these verses?

Jesus is the gate, the narrow gate that leads to eternal life. If you enter through Him you will be saved but since you do not know if you are saved or not means you have not entered yet.

The gate is not righteous works.

 

[meshak]

Jesus is the gate, the narrow gate that leads to eternal life. If you enter through Him you will be saved but since you do not know if you are saved or not means you have not entered yet.

The gate is not righteous works.

You see you just proved that you dont understand Jesus' simple and lear messages.

You ALWAYS twist the words to fit into your theology.

that's why I dont debate the scripture with you.

 

[APAK]

So then are you saying that the beloved John was wrong when he wrote, Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

The genius of God is not that He brings circumstances upon us, but it is that He uses every circumstance that comes upon us for our good. Suffering is not the way to salvation, Jesus is and Jesus turns our suffering into victory.

It is a misreading of the text to attribute the entering of the kingdom to tribulation. If that were the case most humans would be saved in the kingsdom. Sinners suffer as much as saints on this mortal coil. Jesus is the way.

Straight means narrow compressed but it is not referring to tribulation. It is referring to the fact that it is only one man wide and the man is Christ. There is no other way.

Christ killed the old man, we put him off. Eph 2:5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

(Eph 4:20) But that is not the way you learned Christ!—
(Eph 4:21) assuming that you have heard about him and were taught in him, as the truth is in Jesus,
(Eph 4:22) to put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires,
(Eph 4:23) and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds,
(Eph 4:24) and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.(ESV)

As I already said we' kill off' or 'put off' the old man as Paul says in Ephesians 4:20-24.

And you quoted Eph 2:5 that does not address the subject at all. Christ made it possible for us to kill the old man and become saved, and being saved today, although we must do it, not he. We must be renewed in spirit of mind. Rid ourselves of the selfish, sinful way we naturally think and act in this evil world. Christ cannot do this for us. Again this was appropriate for the subject of salvation I was always speaking on here.

And further, you have misread Acts 14:22 not I. It says what I wrote.
(Act 14:22) strengthening the souls of the disciples, encouraging them to continue in the faith, and saying that through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God. (ESV)

It is all about faith and perseverance and endurance to overcome trials of faith in life and always point to the Kingdom not fully realized yet.
And then you point to sinners in tribulation as much as saints, remarkable! As if they are able to be in the Kingdom, what an incredible thought.
It has nothing to do with sinners, it is aimed at reborn believers in the Kingdom today. Do you not understand the difference between being a believer in tribulation and a non-believer in the same? You are writing as if I meant they were the same thing, impossible.

And finally for your last blunted dart of 3 John 1:2 you presented....
(3Jn 1:1) The elder to the beloved Gaius, whom I love in truth.
(3Jn 1:2) Beloved, I pray that all may go well with you and that you may be in good health, as it goes well with your soul.
(3Jn 1:3) For I rejoiced greatly when the brothers came and testified to your truth, as indeed you are walking in the truth.
(3Jn 1:4) I have no greater joy than to hear that my children are walking in the truth. (ESV)

This is part of a greeting to a believer in Christ. John yes, wants this Gaius to have mental and physical health as this will help keep his spiritual life, his overall soul well also. It will support it no doubt. Again this is for the exterior life of a believer. I'm not speaking of this exterior feature in life. Again my subject is of salvation of the inner life and walk in Christ. The verse here you raised is mutually exclusive with the subject at hand. I hope you understand this critical point.

Now for another scripture.

(Rom 5:3) " More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, "
(Rom 5:4) " and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, "
(Rom 5:5) " and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit which has been given to us. "

The words of this scripture I live every day in some fashion and degree. My spirit that is being transformed as Christ is operating in a hostile environment today. My flesh is cursed as an enemy, and the spirit of this world is the same. How can a true believer be not in some type of defensive posture and under pressure at times to ward of these attacks when they arrive, with the full armor of God?

Yes, I have physical health and good mental faculties, and I pray for them to stay this way as I grow older, as John wished upon this man. I also pray to and for my inner spiritual life with God through the spirit of Christ to know him more and prosper in knowledge and wisdom. To praise God for the truth I have of him inside of me.

Again when you said, "Suffering is not the way to salvation, Jesus is and Jesus turns our suffering into victory," you are ignorant of what type of suffering that Jesus cannot turn it into victory by himself. Why, because this span of time of this 'suffering' in opening up our hearts for salvation has to be done with the love of God on our side as we become a new rebirth of God. We accept the faith given to us by the gift and grace of God, as we in trust for the FIRST time, walk across this bridging faith to meet him on the other side as we have already opened the door to our heart and to be with and in him. This is the victory through this type of suffering or pressure.

Maybe the word suffering is putting you off. Too much then, so stick to other words like pressure, sweat, struggle, straining, in finding the strength and the motivation to keep on the right path to the right gate. It's an unnatural act of man to depend on God for a free gift of faith to salvation. It is an alien thing.

And if you meant in your statement above this suffering is only applicable after you are saved in Christ then I would agree of course. These sufferings can be turned into victories indeed. amen!

And then you do acknowledge that a believer does suffer in spirit, as we are working through or working it out as being saved today and tomorrow?! You must, I hope.

 

[7thMoon]

What is "sleeping in the power of God." You know most of what you say escapes me. I don't really understand a lot of what you are trying to say. If you will excuse me, I am going to start asking you more clarifying questions.

SOUL SLEEP, I don't believe it.