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Belief a Conscious Choice?

TrevorL said:
Greetings again Grace_accepted,

You have quoted possibly a marginal translation and then linked it with Jeremiah 13:23. The following are some of the other translations:
Jeremiah 17:9 (KJV): The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Jeremiah 17:9 (ASV 1901): The heart is deceitful above all things, and it is exceedingly corrupt: who can know it?
Jeremiah 17:9 (RSV): The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately corrupt; who can understand it?
Jeremiah 17:9 (NASB95): “The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?
Jeremiah 17:9 (ESV): The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?
I considered Jeremiah 17:9 in my Psalm 1 thread, and never considered that Psalm 1 and Jeremiah's commentary of Psalm 1 in Jeremiah 17 had anything to do with our need for the Holy Spirit.
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I can work with these also for the principle remains the same. Who can you change your heart. If it is wicked then you are wicked. If it is sick then you are sick. If it is corrupt then you are corrupt. Jesus said, "A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him.(Matt 12:35) How is one to change the contents of their heart, their character: the ground of their heart?

And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules. Ez 36:27 Praise God that He is the one who does this our only choice in the matter is to accept or reject His gift of regeneration, training, and lordship. The works of God are to believe. Then they inquired, “What must we do to perform the works of God?” Jesus replied, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.” John 6:28-29 With a corrupt, wicked, sick heart, that is impossible.

Praise God that the medium of His communication and healing to us is the Holy Spirit without which we would be dead to him. You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact, the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. Romans 8:9

I have had a few discussions with an ex-Baptist, now part time Pentecostal Pastor. He considered that he could answer me by drawing upon the Holy Spirit within, almost without proper reasoning or thought, and a few times he hesitated for a few seconds and then gave what I considered a ridiculous answer. He also strongly believed in OSAS, and he used to say that the Holy Spirit was more powerful than ourselves and therefore we could not fall away.

Kind regards
Trevor
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If we could not fall away, the bible would not have said we can. As I have said, believe God's words, not man's. To be clear, that does not preclude God speaking through a man or woman but if they speak not according to the law and testimony it is because there is no light in them.
 
MatthewG said:
Okay, thank you for expressed view. Would you say it’s a choice or something like God chose you personally out of all the world itself?

My suggestion is God is calling all to himself through Christ, and one must make a decision/choose.
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In order to make a decision or a choice in the matter means that one believes already. If one does not believe in God, there is no choice to reject Him since one cannot reject what they do not believe exists.
 
I propose that it is faith that is given by God. Eph 2:8. It is not the choice to accept or reject the gospel, that is given. That faith comes by way of hearing the gospel, Romans 10:17, and that this hearing refers to both having the gospel preached (or reading it), and really hearing it. Matt 11:15; Matt 13:23; 1 Cor 2:14. It is the regeneration by the Holy Spirit and Him in us that opens our ears to hear and understand, and we do believe. That joins us with Christ and He is our Lord, and we do follow Him----by choice.
 
Believe however you choose to see.

It takes faith to believe that God exist.

It’s impossible to please God without faith.

There are people who make the choice to believe the Gospel of Christ. Others who laugh and mock at it, even the cross. Choices in this life will all you will ever have until your death.

The great choice is to believe and have God in your life walking by faith and spirit.

May God give you the eyes to see the truth of the matter; friend.

Take care.
 
Faith is a persuasion from God from the Greek definition and would agree with you Arial; it is something that God gives us to accept or to reject. Such as even that of the promises of God. It has been a long time now about two months since going over Faith, Hope and Promises which was made a video on the youtube channel that is used by me. It is still helpful and well meaningful for anyone who desires to know about Faith - Hope and Promises.

View: https://youtu.be/9stkJLP0_SI
 
MatthewG said:
Faith is a persuasion from God from the Greek definition and would agree with you Arial; it is something that God gives us to accept or to reject. Such as even that of the promises of God. It has been a long time now about two months since going over Faith, Hope and Promises which was made a video on the youtube channel that is used by me. It is still helpful and well meaningful for anyone who desires to know about Faith - Hope and Promises.

View: https://youtu.be/9stkJLP0_SI
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Did you see my post on the first page, I think, about being persuaded?
 
MatthewG said:
Faith is a persuasion from God from the Greek definition and would agree with you Arial; it is something that God gives us to accept or to reject. Such as even that of the promises of God. It has been a long time now about two months since going over Faith, Hope and Promises which was made a video on the youtube channel that is used by me. It is still helpful and well meaningful for anyone who desires to know about Faith - Hope and Promises.

View: https://youtu.be/9stkJLP0_SI
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It is true that all good things come from God. And let me interject here, that I really don't think it matters as to whether we are saved or not, if we believe it us choosing God or God choosing us. What I am having trouble grasping in a logical way is how faith (and I speak here only of the faith that saves, as the Bible puts forth) can be faith and at the same time be rejected. By definition of saving faith, which is faith (belief in, trust in) is that we do believe it. And if we do believe it, where does rejecting it come in? We will not reject something we believe. Rejecting it would be tantamount to saying we don't believe it. This faith is something that applies the work that Jesus did to the believer. If we don't believe (reject) it, it is because we don't have the necessary faith.

You say that it takes faith to believe that God exists and I am not sure this is the case, as scripture tells us that we know of His existence by the evidence in creation. And this knowledge alone will not save us. Having a faith in the truthfulness of the gospel to save us, is not the same thing. Just MPOV.
 
I'll pass any questions that are not going to edify or give anything more to what has already been said.

Thank you all for your insights, and time to explains and to bring forth information.

Each and everyone of you have the right to have your own opinions and bring them forth.

All may take and consider all that has been provided, seek God in spirit and truth and He will let you know what is true.

May you all have a great rest of your day and thank you for your time.

May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God, and the fellowship of the holy spirit be with you and your family.
 
MatthewG said:
I'll pass any questions that are not going to edify or give anything more to what has already been said.

Thank you all for your insights, and time to explains and to bring forth information.

Each and everyone of you have the right to have your own opinions and bring them forth.

All may take and consider all that has been provided, seek God in spirit and truth and He will let you know what is true.

May you all have a great rest of your day and thank you for your time.

May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God, and the fellowship of the holy spirit be with you and your family.
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Everyone has the right to their opinions. God even gives us the right to reject him and die or accept him and become His children. Our opinions are totally meaningless and if we cling to them and venerate them we may never hear God's facts. There will be no participation trophies handed out on that final day. There will be no 2nd place or good-enoughs.

Jesus laid out what it means to be good enough in his teachings and low and behold none of us measure up. In fact, the apostles would do that from time to time, but no one has achieved it. So why did they do it? To give us the target to aim for, not that we will hit it with perfection but that we might exhaust our love for God trying. After all, we are already saved and perfect in Christ and Christ's righteousness can not be improved upon so there is no other motive but Love for God. If you have it, it is because He has loved you first and given his Son's life as a ransom for yours.

No, there are not many ways to God and all opinions are not equal. Our emotions are not accurate barometers of salvation. There is only One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. There is only one way to that Father. Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6

Jesus, the narrow way and the strait gate, is the only way to salvation. So, yes, we have a right to our useless opinions and we may feel good about kicking them around in a polite and mannerly fashion but we could also be doing that while discussing the mating habits of the Eastern Mongolian Flea-Flicker.

No, I am not advocating that we unleash the beast, but that we be as wise as serpents but harmless as doves.
 
Thank you for your participation.

It is great to know that is not based on our our works themselves. Yes you desire to stand for the truth of the word. That is great; even to understand it is by faith you are saved by grace that comes from God.

It is hard to fathom the consideration that all that is needed is faith; and how you react to you now given accepted and realized salvation that is only found by faith in the Lord Jesus. Who came, died, was buried and was risen again. That reaction is now a choice. How do you respond to the problems around you by the flesh or the new given spiritual life to those who believe on the name above all names: becoming children of God?

That decision will be up to you.

To love God with all your mind, all your soul, all your heart, and the second is like the first; to love your neighbor as yourself.

What you, me, or any believer out their does with their God given, accepted, realized faith is up to them, and that end of this life they will receive a new spiritual body given by God ( who is a giver of good things not bad). At their judgment day.

Praise be to the Father and the only begotten Son; the Lord Jesus Christ in what they have been able to do for the whole world in which God desirously call for people to accept and come to the knowledge about His Son.

Some will decide to accept, some will decide to reject; but even after this life though some will be on the inside and some one the outside of the Heavenly Jerusalem; so do still believe God still calls to them on the outside to turn and come towards the light.
 
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