Why the Sacrifices in the Sinai Covenant

[shroom]

Example:
Genesis 3:17
To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’ “Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat food from it all the days of your life.

Yes, God commanded Adam not to eat from the tree. Where's the scripture saying God told him to keep the Sabbath?

 

[Arial]

That Sunday was a Sabbath Day of Rest. The real scripture say the women went the first of the week. The word (day) is not in that verse, someone added it.
Yahshua said he would be in the grave for three FULL Days and Nights. That is 72 hours.

I don't know why there are those who quibble over this, as though they are trying to find fault with the Bible. Jesus died and rose again is what is important.

 

[Arial]

Luke 24:21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

Mark 8:31 And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.

Mark 9:31 (NIV) because he was teaching his disciples. He said to them, "The Son of Man is going to be betrayed into the hands of men. They will kill him, and after three days he will rise."

"The third day" can mean "after three days."


Agreed! Jesus Christ was dead for three days and three nights.

Matt 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Do you think a person being right about what day it was, and did it mean 24 hours or the day or something else is what is important?

 

[shroom]

Do you think a person being right about what day it was, and did it mean 24 hours or the day or something else is what is important?

Salvation, the gospel, what Jesus Christ accomplished for us is what's important.

But the Bible does fit together, and God wants us to come to a knowledge of the truth.

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

I don't know why there are those who quibble over this, as though they are trying to find fault with the Bible. Jesus died and rose again is what is important.

If Jesus didn't rise from the dead, faith in God's promises is absurd.

 

[Studyman]

There is no if/then statement here. This is a promise God made to Abraham. God did not have to entice or threaten Abraham to get him to do what He wanted. There is no if/then, it is not there.

In Calvinism influenced religions, this opinion is popular. But it doesn't Glorify God, nor does it reflect the truth in Scriptures.

Rom. 1: 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

First off, Your preaching that God, "Revealing His Wrath against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men" is God "threatening" people to get them to do what God wants, is typical for you and other Calvinist influenced religious zealots. Your disdain for this God notwithstanding, I don't believe God telling the truth to men, is "threatening them". Any more than telling you that you are free to stand on the roof of the skyscraper, but don't jump off, because in the day you jump off, you shall surely die, is a threat. There is a difference between a threat, and a warning.

Your preaching that "If you jump off the Skyscraper, then you will die" is sending a different message than "Jump off the Skyscraper AND you will die is ridiculous.

Of course, this will not stop you from promoting such falsehoods.


But for others reading along, consider examining what the scriptures actually say.

"And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Deceivers must twist God's Words to promote the other voices in the world God placed us in. So then God's "Warning" to mankind, against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, becomes "threats" God uses to get HIS Way, to the deceiver. "Carrot and Stick" they preach to the world about God.

But the Scriptures don't agree with the implications of your sermons.

So for your declaration to be true, Abraham could not have known about the Flood God brought against ungodliness and unrighteousness of men. Your implication that Abraham didn't know about God's "threat" to Adam, or Cain. You are free to ignore these events, or claim ignorance of them yourself, in order to prop up the specific religious sect you have adopted. But to saddle Abraham with your own willful ignorance, or Judge God as one who didn't reveal His Wrath against ungodliness to Abraham, is a foolishness I will not engage in.

Abraham most certainly knew God's Wrath against ungodliness, same as those in Sodom knew, and Adam knew, "for God has shown them". They simply didn't believe Him, choosing instead to believe "the other voice" you are promoting. But Abraham did Believe Him, and His Warnings of God's Wrath against unrighteousness. WE know this because God told us. "For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him."

Secondly, to believe in this religious philosophy you have adopted, and are now promoting, I would have to erase, or omit the very Reason's God Himself gave for giving Abraham His Covenant.

Gen. 22: 16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: 17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; 18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

As it is written; "So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him"


And again;

Gen. 26: 4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; 5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

As it is written; "So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him"


Of course, since you are here to promote the doctrine that "Follow Me, and I will bless thee", is somehow different than "If you follow me, I will Bless thee", you will probably not even consider these truths.

But for those who may be reading along.

Gen. 17: 1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. 2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.

God Himself said "Because Abraham Obeyed", God made His Covenant with him, as HE promised. Had Abraham followed the path of the world that God brought His Flood upon, instead of being a "Doer" of God's Sayings, God would not have made His Covenant with Abraham. God Himself, tells us "WHY" Abraham was Blessed. I posted God's Own Words. But "many" who come in Christ's Name, don't believe Him.

This is how I know that;

"walk before me, and be thou perfect. 2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly."

Has exactly the same meaning to God as;

If you walk before me, and be thou perfect. 2 I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.

As it is written; "So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him"

Same as with Cain and Able. "“If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.”

So "Do Well AND though shall be accepted, is the same as "If you do well, will you not be accepted". There is no reason for Word games, unless you are trying to twist scriptures to fit into a particular religious sect.

Same with Caleb.

Num. 14:22 Because all those men which have seen my glory, and my miracles, which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times, and have not hearkened to my voice; 23 Surely they shall not see the land which I sware unto their fathers, neither shall any of them that provoked me see it: 24 But my servant Caleb, because he had another spirit with him, and hath followed me fully, him will I bring into the land whereinto he went; and his seed shall possess it.

Same with Jesus;

Matt. 7: 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, (Like Abraham and Caleb) I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: "for" (Because) it was founded upon a rock.

Same with Paul;

Rom. 2: 6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, (Like Abraham and Caleb) eternal life:

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, (Like those who Mock many of God's instructions) indignation and wrath,

Not a Threat, simply God's Truth.

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, (Telling lies about God's Word) of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, (Doer of God's Sayings, like Abraham, not hearers only, ) to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.


The same warnings in the end;

Rev. 22: 12And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

So yes GA, your religion preaches Abraham had nothing to do with God choosing Him. A popular lie yes, the religious of this world have made billions promoting it. But a lie just the same.

"For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

There are "many" White Washed Walls in the world today that come in Christ's Name, claiming to be "Heirs to the Promise" of Abraham. But Jesus, that is, the Jesus of the Bible teaches;

John 8: 39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. (Like Joseph, and Zacharias, and Caleb and Joshua, and Simeon, and Paul, and James and every example of Faith given from the examples of Faith God had written for our admonition.

And if the "threats", as you preach, that Jesus made about "many" who come in His Name are true, then there will be a lot of surprised folks who will be saying, "but Lord, Lord, don't you know who we are"? We had pig roasts and Slug parties in your name.

 

[Arial]

Salvation, the gospel, what Jesus Christ accomplished for us is what's important.

But the Bible does fit together, and God wants us to come to a knowledge of the truth.

Where do you propose one get such information as to what Jesus means by three days and nights, sometimes stated on the third day? Or even what the Bible means when it accounts the days in Gen? Attempting to measure it against our calendar or the Hebrew calendar, is nothing more than a current way of measuring. Do we know that was what God was doing? Or was He simply ordering His creation and creating time in it? Do we miss His point entirely?

Where do you get your information from? There are probably hundreds if not thousands of books, and articles, from one source or another, saying different things, opposing things, but most backing what they say with what they consider correct. Some have been presented here. We can't determine by ourselves just from reading the Bible, without speculating as to what this or that is. So exactly what is the necessity of finding exact truth on this subject? No one can actually prove what they say, they can just have the appearance of doing so, and consider that they have. Christians celebrate good Friday as the day of crucifixion because the Bible says the next day was the Sabbath. We celebrate Sunday, our first day of the week, as the day of His resurrection because the Bible tells us it was the first day of the week that the women discovered Him not in the tomb. That is three days. Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Jesus said He would rise on the third day. That is all that matters. He died and rose again.

One can speculate and argue about it all they want of course, but to say it is a part of the knowledge of truth that we need to or should gain, is itself not true.

 

[Studyman]

Does @Studyman think we are the obligation to celebrate all Jewish holidays? You may have to quote him advocating it, because I don't believe it.

I think we have an obligation to be truthful about God's Word. I do not partake in Jewish Holidays. But in the Holy scriptures, God Himself has Feasts which show His Salvation plan for all men, which begins with Passover. I'm not sure what you mean by "Jewish holidays".

 

[shroom]

Where do you propose one get such information as to what Jesus means by three days and nights, sometimes stated on the third day? Or even what the Bible means when it accounts the days in Gen? Attempting to measure it against our calendar or the Hebrew calendar, is nothing more than a current way of measuring. Do we know that was what God was doing? Or was He simply ordering His creation and creating time in it? Do we miss His point entirely?

I don't think either you or I miss the point.

Where do you get your information from? There are probably hundreds if not thousands of books, and articles, from one source or another, saying different things, opposing things, but most backing what they say with what they consider correct. Some have been presented here. We can't determine by ourselves just from reading the Bible, without speculating as to what this or that is. So exactly what is the necessity of finding exact truth on this subject? No one can actually prove what they say, they can just have the appearance of doing so, and consider that they have.

Does that do for you too?

Christians celebrate good Friday as the day of crucifixion because the Bible says the next day was the Sabbath.

Yes, but WHAT Sabbath. The Bible says is was a "high" Sabbath.

We celebrate Sunday, our first day of the week, as the day of His resurrection because the Bible tells us it was the first day of the week that the women discovered Him not in the tomb.

Yes, we celebrate Christ's resurrection on a Sunday, even though he was raised on late Saturday..

That is three days. Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Jesus said He would rise on the third day.

Where are the three nights?

That is all that matters. He died and rose again.

Ultimately, yes.

One can speculate and argue about it all they want of course, but to say it is a part of the knowledge of truth that we need to or should gain, is itself not true.

Of course it is. An accurate history is part of the truth.

You're usually a stickler for details, Arial. With the traditional understanding of Friday-Sunday, you know things don't add up. But rather than trying to understand it, you're trying to minimize it.

 

[shroom]

I think we have an obligation to be truthful about God's Word. I do not partake in Jewish Holidays. But in the Holy scriptures, God Himself has Feasts which show His Salvation plan for all men, which begins with Passover. I'm not sure what you mean by "Jewish holidays".

The feasts are Jewish religious holidays. They have great signifcance, but they are Jewish. Christians aren't Jews.

 

[Grace Accepted]

In Calvinism influenced religions, this opinion is popular. But it doesn't Glorify God, nor does it reflect the truth in Scriptures.

Right away you have a problem. You are basing the rest of your argument upon an unfounded and unproven premise. Here are some questions that come to mind.

1. How does pointing out that there is no conditional statement made in the text in Genesis 1:12-3 relate to John Calvin?
2. What is your source for Calvin view of Genesis 1:12-3.
3. Which doctrine of Calvin's applies to your premise?

I can't find any connection other than you making a weak attempt to use a logical fallacy to imply that my argument is invalid because I am connected or influenced in some way by John Calvin.

You are incorrect on all accounts and there is no way that you can connect my argument or myself to John Calvin. It seems that you pull out the pope, modern preachers, mainstream religion, constantine, the RCC and such individual systems or people you deem dirty enough to soil your opponent rather than simply addressing the arguments they present.

This is a very poor way to conduct yourself in a debate. Perhaps I am wrong and you can point out how Calvin is related to my argument.

I understand that you lean toward open theology and perhaps that is where you should start rather than with John Calvin.

 

[Grace Accepted]

First off, Your preaching that God, "Revealing His Wrath against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men" is God "threatening" people to get them to do what God wants, is typical for you and other Calvinist influenced religious zealots. Your disdain for this God notwithstanding, I don't believe God telling the truth to men, is "threatening them". Any more than telling you that you are free to stand on the roof of the skyscraper, but don't jump off, because in the day you jump off, you shall surely die, is a threat. There is a difference between a threat, and a warning. Of course, this will not stop you from promoting such falsehoods.

Your supposition does not answer all of the actions of God. If you were warning that person on the skyscraper not to Jump off and they did, would you then be revealing your wrath against them?

Who destroys the sinner eternally?

How does Zech 14:12 relate to a mere warning? And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Who is it that destroys both body and soul in hell?

Your argument destroys itself under the weight of all of the unanswered questions it engenders. Your constant ad hominem interjections end up making you look weak.

In the end it would appear that you are the one promoting a falsehood unsupported by the biblical evidence.