G
God's Truth
Guest
God doesn't give His Truth to people because they are educated. God gives His Truth to little children, to people who humble themselves and obey Him. Jesus is my Teacher.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
P
Phedup
Guest
Jesus was a scholar, as were all rabbis. And you are just making stuff up.God doesn't give His Truth to people because they are educated. God gives His Truth to little children, to people who humble themselves and obey Him. Jesus is my Teacher.
How were the books of your bible decided upon?
G
God's Truth
Guest
Jesus is the Teacher, God come in the flesh.Jesus was a scholar, as were all rabbis.
I don't make stuff up.And you are just making stuff up.
No amount of education, whether academically or seminary, or studies in other languages such as Greek or Hebrew will change God’s Truth, in fact, the word of God says in 1 Corinthians 1:27 “But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.
Isaiah 44:25 who foils the signs of false prophets and makes fools of diviners, who overthrows the learning of the wise and turns it into nonsense,
Jeremiah 8:9 The wise will be put to shame; they will be dismayed and trapped. Since they have rejected the word of the LORD, what kind of wisdom do they have?
1 Corinthians 1:20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
1 Corinthians 1:21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
Luke 10:21 At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure.
There's more scriptures about it but I didn't want to post too many.
The believers from the beginning used these books and letters from the start. That is what determined these books as scripture.How were the books of your bible decided upon?
G
glorydaz
Guest
Nothing there disproving man is born innocent....and is not guilty of any sin until he chooses to go against the very conscience God gave us for this very purpose. Romans is clear on that.When we are born, we have not yet sinned. But we will. Let's consider sin not in the sense of individual or specific sins for a minute. We can see the picture of being sinless, of being in a perfect, harmonious relationship with God, at creation and before the fall, with nothing separating us from His goodness and provision. At the same time, Adam and Eve were created as sentient beings that could communicate in a "face to face" relationship with God, yet make choices regarding what they would do and where they would go. They were people, a creation, but more like their Creator than any of the rest of creation. God created a place for them to be, and though they were made in His image and likeness, they were still not Him. Not equal, but under His dominion, and given great responsibility. Work to do. But it was God's voice they heard, and His voice they listened to and obeyed. Until.
They listened to another voice, the voice of the evil one, deciding that there just might be another way, a better way, in which they became completely independent of their Maker, even considered He might be withholding that very thing that made them need only themselves. That is what they did, and that is what they got. They separated themselves from utter dependance and worship of the Creator. That is the consequence of their sin that is past from generation to generation. Out of this come all the specific sins. And it is somehow in our nature to seek our own desires and our own way, and our desires are fueled and fed by the evil that now exists in our world, and we fill the world up with more and more.
The expression and example that Jesus uses of little children I believe refers to the trusting, believing nature they have towards things that as adults we question and despise, and pick apart. Authority over us, being told what to do and what not to do, what to believe etc.
Yes, a "believing nature" until they choose wrong over right. I'm not seeing any room at all for this idea of original sin.
G
glorydaz
Guest
Yeah, I'm long over reading what men think the Bible is saying.All things written in the law and prophets (sola scriptura) or law and the testimony of the law as God's testimony to us continue to reform and restore the government of God .The first century reformation which gets ignored sets the standard ,Study the 1st the 15th as a carbon copy follows. Same father of lies .God of this world
G
glorydaz
Guest
Of course man falls short of the glory of God, but that doesn't mean sin has become our nature. There are examples all through the Scripture of people who do not have a built in need to sin ie. in their nature. When the Gentiles do by nature the things contained in the law - Romans 2, all these deny the doctrine of original sin. The difference is that sin ENTERED THE WORLDThe protestant doctrine of original sin affirms that through Adam, to sin has become our very nature---what we are inclined towards and do---and all fall short of the glory of God, and God's justice against sin, death. Death of the person physically and this physical death bringing about eternal separation from God, unless the Perfect redeems the imperfect.
Ezekiel 14:14
Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord God.
G
glorydaz
Guest
That's for sure, GT. You're SPECIAL.I'm no pea in a pod with anyone.
A
Arial
Guest
All people do sin though. It isn't a matter of degrees of sinfulness with God and being able to dwell with Him. It is what induces a sin (whatever it is) that is in our nature. And that is greater desire to do the wrong than is the desire to obey God. We set ourselves over Him in that instant, in importance. We yield to the flesh rather than God. That is why anyway, I see it the way I do. It is a place where we disobey the first commandment. That is why Jesus died for us, to remove the penalty for that flaw in us, and ultimately, have it removed altogether. In the meantime His righteousness is counted as ours through union with Him. I have heard too, and used to consider it that way, that our fall brought evil into the world. It did in a sense, but Satan was already in the garden. I have not puzzled through this so dunno. We do have a conscience---which most likely is probably pure mercy on God's part, so that we can know good from evil. It is just that we won't always do the good, even when we know. That is what I think Paul meant.Of course man falls short of the glory of God, but that doesn't mean sin has become our nature. There are examples all through the Scripture of people who do not have a built in need to sin ie. in their nature. When the Gentiles do by nature the things contained in the law - Romans 2, all these deny the doctrine of original sin. The difference is that sin ENTERED THE WORLD
I know that you believe we are saved by Christ's righteousness and not our own, so is it possible that this scripture is saying this as righteousness being a moral uprightness, and their hearts towards God. Slightly moving sideways, I was thinking about how David viewed God, truly trusted Him, and relied on Him completely. Then we have Soloman who God spoke well of and gave wisdom to, and yet at the end of his life God made the statement that his heart was not towards God as His father David's was. David sinned. We know that. But his heart towards God never wavered from keeping the commandments and he never went after other gods. God was his all.Ezekiel 14:14
Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord God.
A
Arial
Guest
About the only other thing I can say is: where did this sin come from and why does it infect and affect every last person born?Nothing there disproving man is born innocent....and is not guilty of any sin until he chooses to go against the very conscience God gave us for this very purpose. Romans is clear on that.
Yes, a "believing nature" until they choose wrong over right. I'm not seeing any room at all for this idea of original sin.
P
Phedup
Guest
That is not true.The believers from the beginning used these books and letters from the start. That is what determined these books as scripture.
G
glorydaz
Guest
All people do sin though. It isn't a matter of degrees of sinfulness with God and being able to dwell with Him. It is what induces a sin (whatever it is) that is in our nature. And that is greater desire to do the wrong than is the desire to obey God. We set ourselves over Him in that instant, in importance. We yield to the flesh rather than God. That is why anyway, I see it the way I do. It is a place where we disobey the first commandment. That is why Jesus died for us, to remove the penalty for that flaw in us, and ultimately, have it removed altogether. In the meantime His righteousness is counted as ours through union with Him. I have heard too, and used to consider it that way, that our fall brought evil into the world. It did in a sense, but Satan was already in the garden. I have not puzzled through this so dunno. We do have a conscience---which most likely is probably pure mercy on God's part, so that we can know good from evil. It is just that we won't always do the good, even when we know. That is what I think Paul meant.
Indeed, everyone ends up sinning if they live long enough. Even coveting is a sin, which is what Paul pointed out with the law. Once he found out it wasn't only what a person does, but even what he thinks, then he says the law slew him. So once again Paul is speaking about the problems with being under the law. The Spirit is what makes the difference. Having NO power under the law.....it meant he had no power to fight off sin. But chapter 8 goes on to show how the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ has freed us from the law of sin and death.
Even the most righteous need Christ's forgiveness because whatever is not of faith is sin, and all fall short of the glory of God. I have no problem with that fact....it's clearly taught in the Bible. I'm convinced we don't have to stay feeling so helpless after reading Romans 7. It's almost giving us an excuse to sin, and I don't believe that was Paul's intent at all. He was actually working very hard to explain to the Jews why he was preaching against the Law of God. We are to RECKON ourselves dead to sin. Once we actually do that and believe it's true then we find out that we don't have to do what we think we're unable to do. Let's be honest. We don't have to choose the "wrong"...now that we have the Holy Spirit living in us. We really can do all things through Christ who strengthens us. We just have to believe what Paul is telling us.I know that you believe we are saved by Christ's righteousness and not our own, so is it possible that this scripture is saying this as righteousness being a moral uprightness, and their hearts towards God. Slightly moving sideways, I was thinking about how David viewed God, truly trusted Him, and relied on Him completely. Then we have Soloman who God spoke well of and gave wisdom to, and yet at the end of his life God made the statement that his heart was not towards God as His father David's was. David sinned. We know that. But his heart towards God never wavered from keeping the commandments and he never went after other gods. God was his all.
G
glorydaz
Guest
Ah, back to my favorite verse concerning this matter. Sin entered into the WORLD.About the only other thing I can say is: where did this sin come from and why does it infect and affect every last person born?
Romans 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Notice what God told Cain. Sin lieth at the door.
Genesis 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
Death is what affected every person....even those who had not sinned like Adam.
Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.