Why All the Divisions Within Christ's Church?

[glorydaz]

No, which is why I was listening intently to what you were saying. I am not the object of discussion here but GOD and His Word are.

and what are those KEY issues, care to elaborate and share.

Yes, I rely on some verses that have supporting verses in other books, etc. and I rely on certain verses because they make clear what they are saying. I know my interpretation by literal, historical and grammatical methods are by far a minority among this forum and others...But it is the only way the Bible can be read without having to delete, add, change any of its verses.

I rarely speak of the reformation because in all their goodness, they shed a lot of blood trying to force people to believe a certain way. The restoration period was not much better.

As you have little time for nonsense, I suggest we converse about God's Word and not about what my knowledge might or might not be.

Blade

Perfect. Then we can move on and do just that.

 

[God's Truth]

It is quite interesting, that inability to see spiritual things from the bible.

Those who don't watch their doctrine and their lives closely by obeying Jesus' word don't get understanding. Some people think their false doctrines are the truth, as they believe and preach falseness.
Many do see through a glass darkly. They don't believe the truth and repent of their sins and have their eyes opened.

For some, the glass is darker than others and for some, it is so dark they can't even understand the plain text.

They only believe what their false teachers taught them, they can't see the truth, they have been blinded.

 

[God's Truth]

His thoughts are not our thoughts, nor his ways our ways.

There is only one way to God, period and that is the Lord Jesus Christ.

For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

 

[God's Truth]

God being a good God let’s all of these denominations exist. How great is our LORD?

God doesn't like falseness.

All people have the ability to read (or have someone read to them), and learn and grow in the knowledge of God and the Lord Jesus.

That is why many don't have an excuse.

God is love.

His thoughts are not our thoughts, nor his ways our ways.

There is only one way to God, period and that is the Lord Jesus Christ.

Take care,
Matthew

View: https://youtu.be/qVC6eCYBB48

Hi Matthew, wondering, is that you in the video?

 

[Grace Accepted]

Those who don't watch their doctrine and their lives closely by obeying Jesus' word don't get understanding. Some people think their false doctrines are the truth, as they believe and preach falseness.

Many do see through a glass darkly. They don't believe the truth and repent of their sins and have their eyes opened.

They only believe what their false teachers taught them, they can't see the truth, they have been blinded.

This is true.

 

[Mungo]

Wow, this thread has moved on over 80 posts since last night. I can't keep up but I'll try and answer bit by bit.

I have questions on what I highlighted in red. Where is scripture does it say that Mary did not have original sin?

Mary not having original sin is a big topic on it's own and I'm not going into that here. Do you really want to derail your own thread that much? Believe it or not, it doesn't matter here regarding original sin.

What is the beatific vision?

Beatific vision : As defined by the Church, the souls of the just "see the divine essence by an intuitive vision and face to face, so that the divine essence is known immediately, showing itself plainly, clearly and openly, and not immediately through any creature" (Denzinger 1000-2). Moreover, the souls of the saints "clearly behold God, one and triune, as He is" (Denzinger 1304-6). It is called vision in the mind by analogy with bodily sight, which is the most comprehensive of human sense faculties; it is called beatific because it produces happiness in the will and the whole being. As a result of this immediate vision of God, the blessed share in the divine happiness, where the beatitude of the Trinity is (humanly speaking) the consequence of God's perfect knowledge of his infinite goodness. (Catholic Dictionary).

Where does the Bible say that sin does not condemn us to hell? Is this what you mean by traditions and if so, where did they come from. In reformed original sin is the result to the human race from Adam's sin. Death and hell (eternal separation from God.) In a very real sense, because of Adam, sin originates in us as part of our nature, guaranteeing we will sin. Romans 6: 23; Gen 2:17

About original sin, the Catechism says original sin is called "sin" only in an analogical sense: it is a sin "contracted" and not "committed" - a state and not an act. Original sin is not personal sin, and yes it is the result of Adam's sin to the human race (though we may disagree as to what that result is).
It is personal sin that separates us from God and condemns us to hell.
New born babies who die have not committed personal sin.
What happens to them? Do they go to hell?

 

[robert pate]

Wow, this thread has moved on over 80 posts since last night. I can't keep up but I'll try and answer bit by bit.


Mary not having original sin is a big topic on it's own and I'm not going into that here. Do you really want to derail your own thread that much? Believe it or not, it doesn't matter here regarding original sin.


Beatific vision : As defined by the Church, the souls of the just "see the divine essence by an intuitive vision and face to face, so that the divine essence is known immediately, showing itself plainly, clearly and openly, and not immediately through any creature" (Denzinger 1000-2). Moreover, the souls of the saints "clearly behold God, one and triune, as He is" (Denzinger 1304-6). It is called vision in the mind by analogy with bodily sight, which is the most comprehensive of human sense faculties; it is called beatific because it produces happiness in the will and the whole being. As a result of this immediate vision of God, the blessed share in the divine happiness, where the beatitude of the Trinity is (humanly speaking) the consequence of God's perfect knowledge of his infinite goodness. (Catholic Dictionary).


About original sin, the Catechism says original sin is called "sin" only in an analogical sense: it is a sin "contracted" and not "committed" - a state and not an act. Original sin is not personal sin, and yes it is the result of Adam's sin to the human race (though we may disagree as to what that result is).
It is personal sin that separates us from God and condemns us to hell.
New born babies who die have not committed personal sin.
What happens to them? Do they go to hell?

We are all born sinners, Psalm 51:5 and need to be born again by the Gospel, 1 Peter 1:23. Those that are not born again by the Gospel are the lost. Original sin is personal sin. All infants are born into sin and are saved until they reach the age of accountability, which is about 7 to 10 years old when they know right from wrong. This is why many accept Christ at a young age. There is nothing about contracted sin or committed sin in the Bible. Sin is sin. Paul said, "There is NONE righteous, no not one" Romans 3:10. "For ALL have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" Romans 3:23

 

[Arial]

Wow, this thread has moved on over 80 posts since last night. I can't keep up but I'll try and answer bit by bit.


Mary not having original sin is a big topic on it's own and I'm not going into that here. Do you really want to derail your own thread that much? Believe it or not, it doesn't matter here regarding original sin.


Beatific vision : As defined by the Church, the souls of the just "see the divine essence by an intuitive vision and face to face, so that the divine essence is known immediately, showing itself plainly, clearly and openly, and not immediately through any creature" (Denzinger 1000-2). Moreover, the souls of the saints "clearly behold God, one and triune, as He is" (Denzinger 1304-6). It is called vision in the mind by analogy with bodily sight, which is the most comprehensive of human sense faculties; it is called beatific because it produces happiness in the will and the whole being. As a result of this immediate vision of God, the blessed share in the divine happiness, where the beatitude of the Trinity is (humanly speaking) the consequence of God's perfect knowledge of his infinite goodness. (Catholic Dictionary).


About original sin, the Catechism says original sin is called "sin" only in an analogical sense: it is a sin "contracted" and not "committed" - a state and not an act. Original sin is not personal sin, and yes it is the result of Adam's sin to the human race (though we may disagree as to what that result is).
It is personal sin that separates us from God and condemns us to hell.
New born babies who die have not committed personal sin.
What happens to them? Do they go to hell?

You are right. I do not have any desire to discuss Catholic theology. I am not qualified to do so. I have said that twice before and asked that that topic be moved to its own thread if that is what you were going to talk about. You paid no attention to that and kept at it. I will attempt to find posts or add my own and bring it back to topic. So please. No more Catholic defenses or defensiveness.

 

[Mungo]

That is exactly the problem with not truly believing in the sovereignty of God. For some reason we seem to feel that we can apply it in whatever way we see fit. Or that who God is is dependant on our ability to understand Him. He is who He is. I AM. And He tells us with no equivocation His moral nature, that He is eternal and self existent, Creator of all, governing all. There is no ambivalence or mutability in His declarations of sovereignty Job chapter 38-41; Matt 10:29-31; Psalm 115:3; Daniel 4:35; Psalm 135:6; Prov 21:1; 1 Chron 29:11; 1 Tim 6:15 etc. etc.

Wow! Did I press the wrong button?

If you calm down a bit we can discuss this.

 

[Mungo]

You are right. I do not have any desire to discuss Catholic theology. I am not qualified to do so. I have said that twice before and asked that that topic be moved to its own thread if that is what you were going to talk about. You paid no attention to that and kept at it. I will attempt to find posts or add my own and bring it back to topic. So please. No more Catholic defenses or defensiveness.

Then why ask the question "Where is scripture does it say that Mary did not have original sin?"

 

[Arial]

I understand where you're coming from, but in the same way Adam and Eve were created innocent, we are as well. Suffer the little children.... Luke 18:15-16
And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them.
But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

When we are born, we have not yet sinned. But we will. Let's consider sin not in the sense of individual or specific sins for a minute. We can see the picture of being sinless, of being in a perfect, harmonious relationship with God, at creation and before the fall, with nothing separating us from His goodness and provision. At the same time, Adam and Eve were created as sentient beings that could communicate in a "face to face" relationship with God, yet make choices regarding what they would do and where they would go. They were people, a creation, but more like their Creator than any of the rest of creation. God created a place for them to be, and though they were made in His image and likeness, they were still not Him. Not equal, but under His dominion, and given great responsibility. Work to do. But it was God's voice they heard, and His voice they listened to and obeyed. Until.

They listened to another voice, the voice of the evil one, deciding that there just might be another way, a better way, in which they became completely independent of their Maker, even considered He might be withholding that very thing that made them need only themselves. That is what they did, and that is what they got. They separated themselves from utter dependance and worship of the Creator. That is the consequence of their sin that is past from generation to generation. Out of this come all the specific sins. And it is somehow in our nature to seek our own desires and our own way, and our desires are fueled and fed by the evil that now exists in our world, and we fill the world up with more and more.

The expression and example that Jesus uses of little children I believe refers to the trusting, believing nature they have towards things that as adults we question and despise, and pick apart. Authority over us, being told what to do and what not to do, what to believe etc.

 

[Arial]

Then why ask the question "Where is scripture does it say that Mary did not have original sin?"

Because you showed it to me and I don't recall reading that in the Bible. So I asked!!! Now stop it. This too is off topic, it is being contentious.