Why All the Divisions Within Christ's Church?

[Arial]

the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ has freed us from the law of sin and death.

I agree with the first part of your post at least to the degree that the way you see it and in whatever way I might see it slightly differently, changes nothing significantly in our hearts and understanding. I quote this part, not because I disagree, but to say something about it. I see being freed from the law of sin and death a statement of the condemnation (death) that comes from sin, being removed. We are forgiven and the Spirit begins a work in us, through the word, and progressively.

Even the most righteous need Christ's forgiveness because whatever is not of faith is sin, and all fall short of the glory of God. I have no problem with that fact....it's clearly taught in the Bible. I'm convinced we don't have to stay feeling so helpless after reading Romans 7. It's almost giving us an excuse to sin, and I don't believe that was Paul's intent at all. He was actually working very hard to explain to the Jews why he was preaching against the Law of God. We are to RECKON ourselves dead to sin. Once we actually do that and believe it's true then we find out that we don't have to do what we think we're unable to do. Let's be honest. We don't have to choose the "wrong"...now that we have the Holy Spirit living in us. We really can do all things through Christ who strengthens us. We just have to believe what Paul is telling us.

I never did feel helpless after reading Romans 7. I felt relieved because for a long time as some sins, particularly of behavior, seemed obstinate, and it made me feel so low, and like such a bad person. It made me question my salvation. Because I read it as Paul speaking of a Christian battle, I realized it was common to a growing believer, even one as "grown" and called to apostleship by Jesus, as Paul. It did not make me want to sin, or ignore my sins, it made me recognize that it was a battle between the old and the new man, not an indication of who I am. Then as time went on, I also came to the understanding that it is the Holy Spirit who does this sanctifying. And He does this through the word. "Sanctify them by Your word, Your word is truth." And it is when our own efforts to change ourselves cease (self help. Changing self through behavior modification)that we see the most progress. We read His word, we know what He says and how a Christian is to present to the world, and when the temptation comes to do otherwise, we submit to God's way. Not for the sake of changing ourselves, but because we are His. He will correct and discipline us if we go too long without recognizing our wrong ways. And He will let us know at once with that still small voice. And though much of what used to be a temptation to me no longer has the slightest bit of even the power to tempt, there are other areas still in progress dealing with attitudes and such where I act before I think. We will not reach that perfection this side of the gate, and I am sure you agree with that. And yes, it is always Christ who strengthens us.

 

[Arial]

Ah, back to my favorite verse concerning this matter. Sin entered into the WORLD.

It can't get any clearer than that!

Notice what God told Cain. Sin lieth at the door.

Yes. Sin is in the world. It is that desire for it that is in us. For what we perceive as personal benefit of satisfaction to us.

Death is what affected every person....even those who had not sinned like Adam.

Because the "wages of sin is death." Death came because of sin.

 

[God's Truth]

That is not true.

The letters and books are scriptures and the first Christians used them. That is the truth.

 

[Phedup]

The letters and books are scriptures and the first Christians used them. That is the truth.

How do you know that it is true?

 

[Mr G Lee]

Yeah, I'm long over reading what men think the Bible is saying.

To include your own self?

 

[glorydaz]

I agree with the first part of your post at least to the degree that the way you see it and in whatever way I might see it slightly differently, changes nothing significantly in our hearts and understanding. I quote this part, not because I disagree, but to say something about it. I see being freed from the law of sin and death a statement of the condemnation (death) that comes from sin, being removed. We are forgiven and the Spirit begins a work in us, through the word, and progressively.

Right, just think, though, we're freed from the law of sin and death by the SPIRIT OF LIFE IN CHRIST. When we're freed from the law, sin has no more dominion over us for we are IN CHRIST. Paul now insists we are not in the flesh....no longer under the dominion of sin.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Not at all what he is saying in Romans 7.

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

Romans 8:6-7
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

I never did feel helpless after reading Romans 7. I felt relieved because for a long time as some sins, particularly of behavior, seemed obstinate, and it made me feel so low, and like such a bad person. It made me question my salvation. Because I read it as Paul speaking of a Christian battle, I realized it was common to a growing believer, even one as "grown" and called to apostleship by Jesus, as Paul. It did not make me want to sin, or ignore my sins, it made me recognize that it was a battle between the old and the new man, not an indication of who I am. Then as time went on, I also came to the understanding that it is the Holy Spirit who does this sanctifying. And He does this through the word. "Sanctify them by Your word, Your word is truth." And it is when our own efforts to change ourselves cease (self help. Changing self through behavior modification)that we see the most progress. We read His word, we know what He says and how a Christian is to present to the world, and when the temptation comes to do otherwise, we submit to God's way. Not for the sake of changing ourselves, but because we are His. He will correct and discipline us if we go too long without recognizing our wrong ways. And He will let us know at once with that still small voice. And though much of what used to be a temptation to me no longer has the slightest bit of even the power to tempt, there are other areas still in progress dealing with attitudes and such where I act before I think. We will not reach that perfection this side of the gate, and I am sure you agree with that. And yes, it is always Christ who strengthens us.

That's good. Our Christian walk can take many turns, can't it? I guess it helps to read the word of God no matter what stage we are in our lives. I've been so blessed by certain truths I've found in the Bible, and then I find something else that builds on what I had learned previously. Going on guilt trips kept me stagnant for quite some time, before I was led (yes, by that still small voice) to another portion of scripture that led me to set my affections on things above. Realizing the guilt was from the enemy. I keep holding onto that verse about the Peace of God passing all understanding, and isn't that the TRUTH.

 

[glorydaz]

To include your own self?

No. I read the Bible and I am on a forum, you'll notice.

 

[glorydaz]

It can't get any clearer than that!

Yes. Sin is in the world. It is that desire for it that is in us. For what we perceive as personal benefit of satisfaction to us.

Because the "wages of sin is death." Death came because of sin.

That "desire for it that is in us"? I say that is a result of our flesh, not sin IN US.

That will come from the world, too.

1 John 2:16

For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

 

[Mr G Lee]

Of course man falls short of the glory of God, but that doesn't mean sin has become our nature. There are examples all through the Scripture of people who do not have a built in need to sin ie. in their nature. When the Gentiles do by nature the things contained in the law - Romans 2, all these deny the doctrine of original sin. The difference is that sin ENTERED THE WORLD

Ezekiel 14:14
Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord God.

Thats what you call original sin there is no copy. The phrase "original"of sin is a doctrine of falsely venerable men. There is only one kind of sin no division That kind of idea is simply a wile of the devil. What God calls one he multiplies; what God calls many he calls it as one.

 

[glorydaz]

Thats what you call original sin there is no copy. The phrase "original"of sin is a doctrine of falsely venerable men. There is only one kind of sin no division That kind of idea is simply a wile of the devil. What God calls one he multiplies; what God calls many he calls it as one.

I don't have a clue what you're talking about. Sorry.

 

[Mr G Lee]

I don't have a clue what you're talking about. Sorry.

I am talking about the phrase "original sin" .What kind of sin is not original?. (Thou shall not .)

 

[Mr G Lee]

That "desire for it that is in us"? I say that is a result of our flesh, not sin IN US.

We live in a body of death that will die and return to the dust or clay of the field . . from where it was temporally formed .
Corrupted flesh is a result of sin .

God corrupted the whole creation when his glory departed on day 3.

Genesis 6:11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.