What to be born again for

[Arial]

The MK will be on this renovated earth, the new heaven and earth comes after the MK.

There's a difference between the church Jesus was, and is, building and the Christian church.

He didn't. Nobody did except God.

Christianity was the secret.

If it was prophesied, the devil would have known about it, and the Bible says if the devil had known about it he would not have crucified Christ.

Yes he did. Christianity is not in the OT.

The kingdom isn't here at all. If it was, this world would be a much better place. The kingdom will be paradise on earth

You followed covenant theology, and amillennialism.

If I understood you correctly, you claimed the new birth is the first resurrection.

Rev 20:
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

I hope you would agree that Rev 20:4 is not talking about the new birth... Then verse 5: "This [verse 4] is the first resurrection."


You hold to covenant theology. I hold to dispensationalism.


John 3 is talking about resurrection.

Your religion sees it as God spiritually birthing people to believe the gospel in order to hang on to Calvinism with all their might.

If all you are going to do is make statements as though the word is you---"Shroom said, and so it is." I don't consider that a debate or a discussion. It is just you spouting off. There is nothing to learn or even ponder there.

 

[shroom]

If all you are going to do is make statements as though the word is you---"Shroom said, and so it is." I don't consider that a debate or a discussion. It is just you spouting off. There is nothing to learn or even ponder there.

My response was simply countering your statements "Arial said it, and so it is."

We disagree on too much.

We do agree that salvation is through Jesus Christ. I'm thankful for that.

 

[Arial]

My response was simply countering your statements "Arial said it, and so it is."

This is a really childish thing that you do all the time.

And I seldom just make statements without showing where and how I arrived at what I say. My thought processes and the whole counsel of the word. All you do is make the statement, sometimes give a scripture, but your conclusions are always isolated from the rest of scripture, and you never address what I say. Countering it is not addressing it. For example, when you say that God gave man free will and He will always respect that, you have never shown me anywhere in the Bible that presents God that way. And you never will because there is no place where He presents Himself that way or presents man the way you see him.

 

[meshak]

This is a really childish thing that you do all the time.

And I seldom just make statements without showing where and how I arrived at what I say. My thought processes and the whole counsel of the word. All you do is make the statement, sometimes give a scripture, but your conclusions are always isolated from the rest of scripture, and you never address what I say. Countering it is not addressing it. For example, when you say that God gave man free will and He will always respect that, you have never shown me anywhere in the Bible that presents God that way. And you never will because there is no place where He presents Himself that way or presents man the way you see him.

do you believe God did not give us free will?

 

[shroom]

And you never will because there is no place where He presents Himself that way or presents man the way you see him.

I have given you several scripture supporting that people have free will and God tells them to choose. You simply pretend that I haven't.

 

[Comingfrom]

This is the one I think of.

If his offering be a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish:
he shall offer it of his own voluntary will at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the Lord.
Leviticus 1:3

 

[Arial]

I have given you several scripture supporting that people have free will and God tells them to choose. You simply pretend that I haven't.

I have shown you where those scriptures do not say that at all. You have to add words to make it be saying what you want. Not only that, but when I show you if they were saying what you claim they are, they deny countless other scriptures and even the very character of God as He reveals Himself. I in know way pretend you haven't given the scriptures.

Saying people do not have freewill is not the same thing as saying people have no will, or that they don't make choices. Anymore than saying God is triune is saying there are three Gods. Yet you continue to couch all your arguments as though that is what is being said.

 

[shroom]

I have shown you where those scriptures do not say that at all.

No you haven't.

You have to add words to make it be saying what you want.

I did not add any words.

Not only that, but when I show you if they were saying what you claim they are, they deny countless other scriptures and even the very character of God as He reveals Himself.

That's the problem... You do not understand the character of God.

I in know way pretend you haven't given the scriptures.

Saying people do not have freewill is not the same thing as saying people have no will, or that they don't make choices.

Anyone can freely choose to believe the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Anymore than saying God is triune is saying there are three Gods. Yet you continue to couch all your arguments as though that is what is being said.

I have never said I believe Trinitarians worship three Gods. What I have said is that some Trinitarians refer to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three beings.

 

[Arial]

do you believe God did not give us free will?

He gave us a will. It is a part of us. That does not mean it is free, for we are in all our ways always subject to the One who created us. In the fall, our wills along with all the rest of our being went into bondage----to sin. Scriptures says we are at enmity with God, that no one seeks Him. I accept that as being a true statement by God Himself. A will in bondage is not free.

The question concerning freewill is not one about whether people make choices, it concerns the question of will He choose God? He won't. Fallen man wants to be autonomous. He does not want a holy God dictating what he can and cannot do, and that is how fallen man views God.

 

[meshak]

He gave us a will. It is a part of us. That does not mean it is free,

so strange logic.

That's Calvinism logic.

You are so devoted and blind to deceptive teaching..

so sad.

this is my observation of your overall faith.

 

[shroom]

He gave us a will. It is a part of us. That does not mean it is free, for we are in all our ways always subject to the One who created us. In the fall, our wills along with all the rest of our being went into bondage----to sin. Scriptures says we are at enmity with God, that no one seeks Him. I accept that as being a true statement by God Himself. A will in bondage is not free.

The question concerning freewill is not one about whether people make choices, it concerns the question of will He choose God? He won't. Fallen man wants to be autonomous. He does not want a holy God dictating what he can and cannot do, and that is how fallen man views God.

Man IS autonomous. It's part of the image of God that we are created in. While we do have a sin nature, we know both good and evil, and can choose between the two.

 

[Arial]

I did not add any words.

Yes you do. Every time scripture tell us what is contained in saving faith---repentance, accepting, receiving, believing, you add the word "choose" or some form of it.

That's the problem... You do not understand the character of God.

Why don't you tell me about His character, and support your claim. That would be a discussion.

Anyone can freely choose to believe the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Then everything that the Bible tells us about the nature and character of mankind is a lie. "All our righteousness is as filthy rags." "All have fallen short of the glory of God." "No one seeks God, no not one." "We are dead in tresspasses and sins." for starters.

I have never said I believe Trinitarians worship three Gods.

Try and understand what I am saying.

Of course you do not say we worship three Gods, because you know we say we don't. That does not change the fact that you can only argue against this theology by treating it as though we do.