What to be born again for

[shroom]

"Calvin misunderstood Paul. Paul is talking about the Christian church, not individual believers." This is a logical fallacy. You give nothing to support that assumption with, other than your predetermined starting point---free will, which also isn't proven. The church is made up of people, it is the people who are the "us".

"Nobody is predestined to salvation," Logical fallacy. You are using yourself as the authority for that statement.

No, I use the Bible. You unfortunately dismiss the scriptures I use.

1 Tim has already been discussed and you dismiss what I say without any proof that I am wrong.

I believe what 1 Tim 2:4 says as it is stated. You don't. For you, because of what you believe, it cannot possibly mean that God wants all people to be saved, so you come up with alternatives. "It could mean all 'types' of people," or "it could mean God wants all people He determined would be saved to be saved."

2 Cor 5:20
Yes that is who we are and what we do.

But you don't actually believe it. For you, what we say or what we do has zero impact on a person's salvation. For you, it's all God. He's the one who spiritually births people, enabling them to believe, and because God's grace is "effectual," they will believe, whether we say anything to them or not.

Romans 6:28-30; Acts 13:48 Eph. 1:11

Rom 6:28-30. I think you meant Rom 8.

Rom 8:
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

He's not talking about individual Christians, but about the Christian church. Anyone can become a member by deciding to believe the gospel.

Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Scholars are divided as to the correct translation and interpretation of the Greek, and that division is usually based on their theology and the way they approach the text. https://www.revisedenglishversion.com/Acts/13/48

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

"We" = the church.

 

[patience]

You cannot make that leap, and leap it is, to say how Paul would have worded his letter if he meant something else. The "us" are those who will read or hear the letter. Those who do believe. If he were writing to one person, you might expect him to say "You" but the fact that he says us simply means these are things that are true of believers. Believers are people. (It is as though one who does not believe in predestination of people reads that scripture and says, "Now how can I make this be saying something else. And then they do.) That is a no go, for we also have Romans 8:28-30; Acts 13:48; Titus 1:1;

It is not a leap. Pronouns are either singular or plural. "We" and "us" are first person plural pronouns. First person plural pronouns are used as inclusive  reference. First person refers to the speaker himself (I, me) or a group that includes the speaker (we, us). v 3-12 inclusive - because everything he talks about pertains to the body of Christ as a group.

 

[Pipiripi]

To say that is the Calvinist view is a misnomer, for we first hear Paul say it. Eph 1:4-5 even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world that we should be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us for adoption to Himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of His will. That is simply one of the places Calvin saw this truth and believed it.

How can you be holy, and you are sinning everyday, because you think that nobody can live sinless!! No body can keep the Ten Commandments of God!!

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

How can you be holy, and you are sinning everyday, because you think that nobody can live sinless!! No body can keep the Ten Commandments of God!!

God imputes Christ's righteousness to us who believe.

 

[Pipiripi]

God imputes Christ's righteousness to us who believe.

So, then we humans are became God's robots!!
We are robots program to sin and live in sin, in the meanwhile God is putting a chip called righteousness of Jesus Christ in our body.

And everywhere in the Bible Jesus is saying go and SIN NO MORE.

 

[Mr G Lee]

If you're a Christian, you're born again now. At the rapture, we'll be made immortal.

It's all one work of our Holy Father. We receive an immortal born-again spirit and heart at our new birth along with a living hope that surpasses all human hope as an understanding of a new incorruptible body... . he gives us His understanding

 

[Mr G Lee]

So, then we humans are became God's robots!!
We are robots program to sin and live in sin, in the meanwhile God is putting a chip called righteousness of Jesus Christ in our body.

And everywhere in the Bible Jesus is saying go and SIN NO MORE.

Not robots but new creatures that receive their daily bread of His will loosed from heaven. The food the disciples knew not of,

Mankind gave up there free will in the garden they become subject as slaves to the will of the god of this world. There is no limbo in-between

John 4:33-34 King James Version Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat? Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

​

 

[Arial]

How can you be holy, and you are sinning everyday, because you think that nobody can live sinless!! No body can keep the Ten Commandments of God!!

Holy in two senses. Holy as set apart as belonging to God. And holy as through their union with Christ through faith, His righteousness is accredited to the believer. (2 Cor 5:21; Phil 3:9; Romans 4:5) The believer is indwelt by the Holy Spirit and through His work in the believer the growth in actual righteousness begins, but will not be perfected until corruption puts on incorruption.

 

[Pipiripi]

It's all one work of our Holy Father. We receive an immortal born-again spirit and heart at our new birth along with a living hope that surpasses all human hope as an understanding of a new incorruptible body... . he gives us His understanding

Where in the Bible can I read this words speaking by the apostles!!

I think that your gods in your body must be crazy!! "The gods must be crazy"!

 

[Arial]

It is not a leap. Pronouns are either singular or plural. "We" and "us" are first person plural pronouns. First person plural pronouns are used as inclusive  reference. First person refers to the speaker himself (I, me) or a group that includes the speaker (we, us). v 3-12 inclusive - because everything he talks about pertains to the body of Christ as a group.

Here we go again resorting to a grammar lesson. Is an "us" made up of individuals, and therefore what is being said to "us" apply to them as individuals? That passage never mentions "church". It is talking to people about people. He is talking about what each individual has from Christ. The body is made up of individual members. What is true for the body, is true for the individual. It is only when one is building a theology based on the starting point of coming against another theology that is established in traditional Christianity, that it becomes necessary to find an interpretation of that scripture and all such scriptures, that aligns to the preconceived notion.

There is no need to continue with the back and forth. We already did it once before concerning this same scripture, and it has gone far enough now. You and Shroom can have a conversation between yourselves about it.

 

[Pipiripi]

Not robots but new creatures that receive their daily bread of His will loosed from heaven. The food the disciples knew not of,

Mankind gave up there free will in the garden they become subject as slaves to the will of the god of this world. There is no limbo in-between

John 4:33-34 King James Version Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat? Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

​

Born again is not resurrection, by thinking that they are the same is thinking that my English is better than you, who has born a speaking English person.

And this new born person is by baptism. Going under the water an old man, and come out as a new man in Christ.

But how can you be in Christ if you reject His Holy Spirit as Himself?

This is the result from plucking verses here and there.

 

[shroom]

It is only when one is building a theology based on the starting point of coming against another theology that is established in traditional Christianity

The problem is that you think "traditional Christianity" has everything right, or your misunderstanding/misconception of what first-century Christianity believed.