S
shroom
Guest
..and people who decide to believe the gospel are actually saved.
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A
Arial
Guest
People who believe the gospel are actually saved...and people who decide to believe the gospel are actually saved.
S
shroom
Guest
That's true, as long as you understand that God did not enable THEM to believe, but nobody else.People who believe the gospel are actually saved.
P
patience
Guest
I'm just pondering - if, by God's predetermined purpose - one is foreknown, predestined to be saved - why does one have to believe anything?People who believe the gospel are actually saved.
S
shroom
Guest
It's that if God has predestined them to believe, they will believe. There is no other outcome possible. The grace is "effectual."I'm just pondering - if, by God's predetermined purpose - one is foreknown, predestined to be saved - why does one have to believe anything?
(not my belief, you understand..)
A
Arial
Guest
Because faith has to be in something. The gospel of Jesus Christ. because the Bible says believe and you will be saved. Because it is Jesus who died for us.I'm just pondering - if, by God's predetermined purpose - one is foreknown, predestined to be saved - why does one have to believe anything?
A
Arial
Guest
There have been plenty of others besides me.That's true, as long as you understand that God did not enable THEM to believe, but nobody else.
P
patience
Guest
Then to me, scripturally, God's predetermined purpose/will - what He has foreknown and predestined is that those who believe, have faith/trust in Jesus Christ will be granted eternal life. I see nothing in scripture using the terms "irresistible" grace or "effectual" grace.Because faith has to be in something. The gospel of Jesus Christ. because the Bible says believe and you will be saved. Because it is Jesus who died for us.
S
shroom
Guest
Of course, but I think you missed the point. God does not enable some people to believe, but not others.There have been plenty of others besides me.
A
Arial
Guest
I did not miss the point.Of course, but I think you missed the point. God does not enable some people to believe, but not others.
A
Arial
Guest
If you knew God the way you ought to know God by now, had you not been sidetracked by the presentation of a different God than the one portrayed in scripture, you would know that God's grace can only be effectual.Then to me, scripturally, God's predetermined purpose/will - what He has foreknown and predestined is that those who believe, have faith/trust in Jesus Christ will be granted eternal life. I see nothing in scripture using the terms "irresistible" grace or "effectual" grace.
How does it make any logical sense that foreknown and predestined mean that those who believe will have eternal life. Eternal life is what they are foreknown and predestined to. Eternal life is not what is predestined.
S
shroom
Guest
Christianity was predestined, not individual Christians.If you knew God the way you ought to know God by now, had you not been sidetracked by the presentation of a different God than the one portrayed in scripture, you would know that God's grace can only be effectual.
How does it make any logical sense that foreknown and predestined mean that those who believe will have eternal life. Eternal life is what they are foreknown and predestined to. Eternal life is not what is predestined.