proof of God?

[freelight]

there is no life where there is no source of life, since its obvious that the Lord God has chosen this planet and the waters thereon then what's your pinot in thinking there is life where God is not?

The One Universal Creator is omnipresent and fills the expanse of infinity! - if so the entire cosmos and expanding creation has the potential and likely possibility for life, millions upon millions of inhabited planets and systems of worlds. I dont see why the infinite Creator would not be the Creator and Sustainer of numberless galaxies and worlds in space, - to believe this little planet is the only one the Creator made with sentient beings (or any life forms) is pretty egotistical and narrow-minded, when we consider infinity. - in the Infinite contains all that is unknown and known simultaneously....but far beyond what one's finite mind can contain or assume.

---------o

 

[freelight]

the Lord God of Israel is the Almighty as in Creator and Judge of all things. and if you want to know the True God then ask Him. its has been known by others that do know God to have called upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

My former questions and challenges towards the initial inquiry and following conclusion of your question holds

I dont know if the 'god' of Israel that you refer to is the 'Real God' or only 'God', or one of many 'gods' just chosen by tradition in a henotheistic sense. It was the view of some early christian sects that the 'god' of Israel was not the same 'god' that Jesus worshipped or was sent by, because that OT 'god' was a wrathful, mean, vengeful 'god' (a man of war), while the 'god' of Jesus was a kind, all-loving Heavenly Father being the Most High Real God,- so in this school of thought Jesus came to reveal the 'true God', who was not the OT 'god exactly, who was a lesser or imposter 'god' (demiurge). - but thats another alley to explore among some gnostic schools and gnostic cosmologies.

For those who choose to see Jesus worshipping and claiming allegiance to YHWH, the 'God' of Israel as his 'God' and 'Father' and just carrying on the path of orthodox Judaism more or less with a newer innovation or revealed Way,...empathy granted, but i'm still not sure on those connections, except to acknowledge that One Universal Creator of all exists, who is the God and Father of all things and beings, even if this Prime Creator has allowed other lesser creator-gods to create some worlds in some form or fashion. - in a true gnostic spiritual Path, 'God' revealed by Jesus is pure love, light, truth, spirit......so for sure I gravitate towards this 'God'. - salvation comes thru a deep experiential 'knowledge' of such, living it, emobdying it, being it! (we are sons of 'God', sons of Light....when one with 'God' surely we are as 'elohim').

As noted, some may question your 'profession' that the real 'God' is the one presented in the OT, and by what 'proofs' that particular 'god' has exclusive rights to be the real or only 'God' available. (there may be more than one 'god' presenting itself in the total Bible canon, as to who was influencing the text, further filtered thru the minds of the scribes creating that text adding further modifications to the 'gods' presented).

Now as to 'God' as a universal Spirit, Power, Presence, Consciousness, Energy, Soul, Essence (give this 'God' a 'personality' if you like or have 'God' include all personal and non-personal attributes) existing as the Creator and uncaused Cause from which all was brought into being and is eternally sustained, I agree that 'God' exists, as sure as my own conscious being exists! - but its form or personality may vary in its infinity of Self-expression, while one absolute Identity of Being always remains (the eternal I AM), no matter what transformations arise in the continuum of creation.

All I know NOW, is that I AM....that is the only real 'God' essence or presence that I'm AWARE of. - so the identify of 'God' or even if I imagine a pantheon of 'gods' ...exists in my own consciousness. - I'll just let that simmer for awhile





-----------o

 

[Mr G Lee]

It would depend on what criteria is considered to qualify as 'proof' or 'evidence' of said 'god' - and this may be besides the general question if 'God' or a singular universal Deity or Creator of the cosmos exists....since the 'god' of 'Israel' may not be the true 'Creator-God' of the universe, but maybe only of this planet (as the demiurge, or a lesser creator-god as held in some early christian-gnostic schools). - so even if the 'god' of 'Israel' can be proved to exist (show the evidence)...you'd further have to prove that 'god' is the only 'Real God' if that 'belief' is being 'assumed'

The evidence is of the faith of God. . . or labor of His love. God is Love personified he shares it with his creation

The God of Christian's the new name the father promised to name the bride previously calling her Israel . He with his finger wrote his thoughts as law. Not maybe true but as it is written. . that kind . true .God is the Faithful and True one .Not many gods with many philosophical theories

Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

In order to reveal himself he created rudiments out of nothing other than the work of his faith or labor of his love. "Let there be". . and behold it was good. God is shown by the things he made .

He warns us of the philosophers of the world.

The living abiding word of God has no equal .God can create a new heart in mankind just as easily as keeping the earth a safe distance from the Sun.

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

As apologist we defend the source of faith that defends us . In that way we are to put on the whole armor of God, no protection for the back .Christ is the rear guard and the bright light before us

 

[Mr G Lee]

The One Universal Creator is omnipresent and fills the expanse of infinity! - if so the entire cosmos and expanding creation has the potential and likely possibility for life, millions upon millions of inhabited planets and systems of worlds. I dont see why the infinite Creator would not be the Creator and Sustainer of numberless galaxies and worlds in space, - to believe this little planet is the only one the Creator made with sentient beings (or any life forms) is pretty egotistical and narrow-minded, when we consider infinity. - in the Infinite contains all that is unknown and known simultaneously....but far beyond what one's finite mind can contain or assume.

---------o

Same as All I know NOW, is that I AM..

Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

I'll just let that simmer for awhile

 

[freelight]

The evidence is of the faith of God. . . or labor of His love. God is Love personified he shares it with his creation

The God of Christian's the new name the father promised to name the bride previously calling her Israel . He with his finger wrote his thoughts as law. Not maybe true but as it is written. . that kind . true .God is the Faithful and True one .Not many gods with many philosophical theories

Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

In order to reveal himself he created rudiments out of nothing other than the work of his faith or labor of his love. "Let there be". . and behold it was good. God is shown by the things he made .

He warns us of the philosophers of the world.

The living abiding word of God has no equal .God can create a new heart in mankind just as easily as keeping the earth a safe distance from the Sun.

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

As apologist we defend the source of faith that defends us . In that way we are to put on the whole armor of God, no protection for the back .Christ is the rear guard and the bright light before us

I will agree that Creation itself reveals a Creator or creative intelligence, a Spirit-source that has originated the worlds of potential and possibility. So, we agree to see that this creative intelligence and life-giving spirit-energy indwells and animates all life forms, call it 'God' if you please. A true theology, science or philosophy would recognize the spirit or MIND behind the creation and be illumined by IT, as to follow its path of wisdom, the integrity of Nature and her laws, in the earth-realm and the laws of the cosmos, as all inter-relates and correlates back into the original matrix that is 'God', The One, The All. - All comes from the Infinite One and returns to The One, because That One is All. - omnipresence includes all, integrates all.

As far as my more universal view of 'God' or the absolute reality at the Heart of all creation, it IS what it IS - I was offering up the question and challenge of those who might ask for 'proof' that your 'version' of 'God' as the sole authentic one, if that 'god' (YHWH-Elohim) be the 'Real God' or just one 'god' among many 'gods', while all might just be a play of images and personas anyways arising in the sea of universal Spirit, as the OverSoul of Creation ('Real God, or Universal Father-Mother of all) continues to express Itself thru-out creation, ever drawing from within the Field of infinity, whose creative potential is boundless.

Therefore in this installment, I'll assume that 'Creation' points to the existence of a 'Creator' (yahoo!), and this 'Creator' has most of the qualities and attributes given to IT by traditional classical theology and schools of theosophy, but there may be some subtle and notable differences in how this 'God' or 'Deity' is described or characterized. Existence itself bears witness to itself only thru 'consciousness' which is the basic 'evidence' already existing proved by one's own existence, so this points back to all 'reality' only existing within the perception of mind, while perceptions can be modified by various factors of influence and degrees of distortion. The only clarity I see NOW, is that I AM (as pure light, spirit), so again,....we fall back to the reality of 'God' only existing within my own reflection of existence, which is the "I" of consciousness itself


---------------o

 

[popsthebuilder]

there is no life where there is no source of life, since its obvious that the Lord God has chosen this planet and the waters thereon then what's your pinot in thinking there is life where God is not?

Wait wait wait; you think GOD is only responsible for creating earth? What about all the rest of the cosmos? I'll need scripture for that too please. Still waiting for the scripture that shows GOD only ever formed life here too.

Pretty sure it says HE created the earth and the heavens....but I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.

Could you also show that GOD is not the source of all creation since that seems to be your argument at this point.

 

[freelight]

Same as All I know NOW, is that I AM..

Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

I'll just let that simmer for awhile

Hold your horses. I did affirm that all I know for certain, always, is that I AM. (I capitalize that because I acknowledge 'God' as the source of my 'being'). That is a bonafide truth, and is the only fundamental truth that allows me to know anything, it is the very faculty of 'knowing' itself (consciousness itself). I acknowledge that recognizing my own 'being' is because 'God' exists and is the very source of my own individual life-stream. - so I attribute the pure "I" of consciousness to be 'God' in my own experience, since 'God' is the life and spirit that animates all within me and outside of me, since 'God' is infinite. I'm an individual expression, an offspring of 'God', for there is no other 'God' or 'Life' existing! 'God' is the 'One' and 'Only'....All in all. - there is no 'other'. - this view gives 'God' all the glory, because 'God' alone is Absolute.

Your quote about the King of Babylon does not equal or correlate in any way to my simple recognition and profession that 'I AM'. - it is only in this simple awareness of 'being', that I can know 'God' or anyone, or anything, do you follow? - so, I equate the awareness that 'I AM' with 'God', because 'God' is the Sole Source of all life and conscious-existence, and in the universal unity of LIFE Itself, there is no seperation because 'God' is 'One'. 'Creator' and 'Creation' are one, because there is One Universal Mind, that includes all, and that is all. Thats my view and its continually proving itself moment to moment. Spirit itself is Life, and as I abide in 'God', I have eternal life always, - 'to be spiritually minded is life and peace'.

The King of Babylon had a fall because of his sinful pride and self-deception, for being a man (mortal) enflamed with his own egotistical pomp and self-aggrandizement ...he could never be truly like the Most High ever, he was not humble or submitted to divine love or wisdom, which are true qualities and attributes of 'Real God'. - his own pride caused his destruction,....the more he 'howled' and 'wailed' about his self-importance and glory, the more destructive he became and it backfired on him.

I will only touch on this passage being about the King of Babylon and not any personage named 'lucifer' who some identify as 'satan' by christian tradition based only on the latin Vulgate translation of the particular passage, which brings in various convoluted parallels, some believe without justification. - suffice to say, I dont see it mattering in the context in which I'm recognizing the 'I AM' as being the source of my being, my very life, power, joy, light, inspiration and so on. This 'God' within as love and light could only bear the fruits of love and wisdom, goodness and integrity, mercy and justice. - 'a tree is known by its fruit'.


------------o

 

[DPMartin]

The One Universal Creator is omnipresent and fills the expanse of infinity! - if so the entire cosmos and expanding creation has the potential and likely possibility for life, millions upon millions of inhabited planets and systems of worlds. I dont see why the infinite Creator would not be the Creator and Sustainer of numberless galaxies and worlds in space, - to believe this little planet is the only one the Creator made with sentient beings (or any life forms) is pretty egotistical and narrow-minded, when we consider infinity. - in the Infinite contains all that is unknown and known simultaneously....but far beyond what one's finite mind can contain or assume.

---------o

sorry no "omnipresent" in scripture in relation to the Lord God of Israel who is the Creator and Judge of all things.

something you might not understand the Word of God by which all things made are made goes out from God and returns to God fulfilled according to God's Will. see creation in scriptures.

also it seems you speak of a god that is according to your specifications as in what a god ought to be in your judgement.

 

[DPMartin]

Wait wait wait; you think GOD is only responsible for creating earth? What about all the rest of the cosmos? I'll need scripture for that too please. Still waiting for the scripture that shows GOD only ever formed life here too.

Pretty sure it says HE created the earth and the heavens....but I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.

Could you also show that GOD is not the source of all creation since that seems to be your argument at this point.

don't change the subject. can man prove there is a God is the subject.

 

[freelight]

sorry no "omnipresent" in scripture in relation to the Lord God of Israel who is the Creator and Judge of all things.

Plenty of passages that speak of God's omnipresence, besides 'omnipresence' is one of the main attributes of 'God' in classical theology and many philosophical systems, along with 'omnipotence' and 'omniscience',.....where have you been hiding? - There are dimensions of 'God' and potential 'reality' beyond our narrow prescriptions of 'God' or any other subject, - plus you cant put 'God' in a box, because 'God' is infinite,....unless you also deny the 'infinity' of 'God' too

something you might not understand the Word of God by which all things made are made goes out from God and returns to God fulfilled according to God's Will. see creation in scriptures.

You cant put 'God' in a 'box', neither can you assume any one book written by men contains a COMPLETE or FINAL revelation of 'God', thats impossible. - this seems like a hard pill to swallow for some, but its obvious granted the nature of 'God' and progressive revelation.

also it seems you speak of a god that is according to your specifications as in what a god ought to be in your judgement.

I'm open to explore the subject of 'God' in both orthodox and non-orthodox terms and possibilities, because I respect 'God' as being all that classical theism describes 'Deity' as, and all my other studies and meditations have discovered 'God' to BE....thus far...and open to change my mind in any way in the continual research of truth and personal experience of Deity. - a seeker after truth, lover of 'God' must always maintain this openness and willingness to discover more about the subject he loves. - thats basic 'scientific method' approach, and it can apply to spiritual knowledge as well (divine science).

It may still be uncertain as to whether the 'god' of Isreal is the 'Most High God', the one and only 'true God' or just one 'god' among others, as also many atheists or agnostics would still be waiting for 'evidence' for that. Its a complex field here where many variables and possibilities exist in determining anything with any verifiable proofs for said 'god' or 'subject', which may really come down to the 'subjectivity' of 'faith', ones personal opinion or mere 'belief' on the matter (that 'belief' may be rational or more presumptuous) in any given venue.

Now as to 'God' in general as we might metaphysically describe 'God', a description that is amenable to both theists and most spiritualist philosophers, the fundamental attributes of said 'Deity' are usually universally agreed as far as 'first principles' are concerned,...there being a 'Creator' behind and/or at the heart of Creation, an uncaused Cause underlying all effects in the material world. This 'Deity' would be original, absolute and infinite in nature, universally all-inclusive and encompassing.

I dont make any claims for 'God', except by letting life prove itself by its own being, but can explore, study and investigate 'theology' and 'metaphysics' in all its dimensions and areas of interest, which is what I'm about - this contemplation includes all that is unknown and known, it includes all, because 'God' includes all, being all in all, and more. - this is why I'm completely comfortable in an either an 'agnostic' or 'gnostic' orientation on any given subject because perception may vary on differing levels. 'God' must in some fashion be approached as the 'unknown' or even 'unknowable'(ultimately) which opens ones to progressive revelation. One can also be a 'gnostic' on the path in recognizing that 'experiential knowledge' of 'God' can be had along the way, granting illumination and thereby salvation.


--------------o

 

[freelight]

don't change the subject. can man prove there is a God is the subject.

Its related, since the traditional definition of 'God' includes that 'God' is the Creator of all worlds, and that would include an infinity of worlds thru-out eternity. Just because you cannot see beyond a certain distance in space, the telescopes we have of limited scope show hundreds of planets and galaxies that may have life, many planets with suitable environments similar to earth even.

The definition of 'God' can vary per the individual or school of thought referencing such.

There are plenty of seemingly decent and morally good atheists and agnostics that are not convinced as of yet of the existence of a 'God' as described in the Bible or any other religious text. - perhaps they can live happy and fulfilled lives without such a 'belief' and maybe take on a more humanist or pantheistic world view? - that appears to be the case for some........


-------------------o

 

[popsthebuilder]

don't change the subject. can man prove there is a God is the subject.

Oh, okay. Seemed pertinent to me but it's your thread isn't it?

The reasonable man can deduce that GOD must exist and too care about what IT created with exceptional potential (man on earth).