proof of God?

[The_drake_]

that's not the subject at hand, but somebody is typing this stuff.

It is though. I'm not sure what sort of proof you're looking for.

Even if everything in the Bible was verified by a tv camera which could look back in time, it's still possible this is all just one big simulation, or that the God performing all those miracles was actually just an alien species pulling a Wizard of Oz behind the curtain trying to manipulate us, or that you're some extra-dimensional being dreaming all this up.

This is equally true of scientific explanations for all that surrounds us such as the big bang, which has it's own crisis in cosmology atm.

The only way you'll ever get anything close to certainty using reason is by finding an explanation you like and refusing to question it/ dive deeper.

Faith is always necessary if you want to say concrete things about the nature of this life/world, whether you are a Christian or a materialist.

 

[popsthebuilder]

ah, reason, watch out, reason is the god of atheists. one can use reason like anything else, but some worship reason. reason is not superior to revelation of God.

Adam and Eve knew without a doubt that God exists. why? because the Voice of the Lord was revealed to them. even when the serpent was talking to Eve there was no doubt or question of God's existence.

which is separate from "faith" a belief and trust, in this case, in the Voice of the Lord that Adam and Eve knew existed. which is by the way what was eroded by the words of the serpent and she trusted and believed (placed her faith in) the voice of the serpent.

Watch out? I don't find fear to be the best motivator in this phase of life. Fight or flight instinct may be of use in ways, even perhaps for the believer; but being motivated into action or the lack there of by fear, and fear mongering stand as contrary to what is good to me personally.

Reason is not superior to anything. Emotion and cognition do go hand in hand and allow for more critical thought as a unit or functional system though. A system formed and given by GOD to man.

Are you insisting that Adam and Eve saw GOD?

Evidently they didn't believe too much seeing as how Eve was deceived yet Adam knowingly followed suit. Perhaps it was out of love that he followed her... A topic a little too fanciful for this discussion.

People can be deceived. People can be naive. People can also be relatively selfless and hopeful. All potential is given of GOD.

 

[Bradley D]

so you know, I'm not questioning your experience, understand. actually you've shown how it is God is proved to be, as in He reveals Himself to you. granted there's the possibility that what you heard or thought you heard could be of another source. hence things like the bible and being with others that "know the Lord" help to prove that you are experiencing the same God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob.

God shows that He is who He is to whom ever it pleases Him to do so.

To me it was God not me. Also one morning at my prayer and meditation at my kitchen table, I thought of the first two years of my sobriety. I saw that the times I did not know how to handle a situation and prayed the answer came to me. I came realize that there was a God and He was there for me.

 

[DPMartin]

It is though. I'm not sure what sort of proof you're looking for.

Even if everything in the Bible was verified by a tv camera which could look back in time, it's still possible this is all just one big simulation, or that the God performing all those miracles was actually just an alien species pulling a Wizard of Oz behind the curtain trying to manipulate us, or that you're some extra-dimensional being dreaming all this up.

This is equally true of scientific explanations for all that surrounds us such as the big bang, which has it's own crisis in cosmology atm.

The only way you'll ever get anything close to certainty using reason is by finding an explanation you like and refusing to question it/ dive deeper.

Faith is always necessary if you want to say concrete things about the nature of this life/world, whether you are a Christian or a materialist.

I'm not looking for proof, I posed the question of whether or not man can prove God exists.


also the sigh of the generation you come from in your statement even if the bible was verified by tv cameras.

which would make one think you believe and trust tv. science has nothing to do with this, since God is God He does nothing at the will of another therefore science can't demonstrate the Living God to others.

again reason isn't the way because one isn't the judge of whether God is God or not.

no faith is the relationship that is acceptable to God with man, as in faithful. but acts like with Moses are verified by the witness thereof. read exodus chapter 20, which verified that the acts they experienced and witness were of the Lord God. and many of those people despite what they seen and experienced were not faithful.

but witnesses can only tell you what they seen for themselves.

 

[DPMartin]

Watch out? I don't find fear to be the best motivator in this phase of life. Fight or flight instinct may be of use in ways, even perhaps for the believer; but being motivated into action or the lack there of by fear, and fear mongering stand as contrary to what is good to me personally.

Reason is not superior to anything. Emotion and cognition do go hand in hand and allow for more critical thought as a unit or functional system though. A system formed and given by GOD to man.

Are you insisting that Adam and Eve saw GOD?

Evidently they didn't believe too much seeing as how Eve was deceived yet Adam knowingly followed suit. Perhaps it was out of love that he followed her... A topic a little too fanciful for this discussion.

People can be deceived. People can be naive. People can also be relatively selfless and hopeful. All potential is given of GOD.

so you are the judge of what is good for you, correct?

and you are saying what God gave man is flawed, correct?

A&E heard the Voice of the Lord that came into the garden, also Adam heard the commandment or agreement in the case of the trees in the garden. and yes they were not faithful to the agreement or commandment if you like, meaning faithful to whom they were in the agreement with.


as far as your statement on people, all know, whether they deny it or not, that there is a higher nature (a perfect nature) then human nature, meaning their own nature.

 

[DPMartin]

To me it was God not me. Also one morning at my prayer and meditation at my kitchen table, I thought of the first two years of my sobriety. I saw that the times I did not know how to handle a situation and prayed the answer came to me. I came realize that there was a God and He was there for me.

that reminds me of:

Jas 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

which is absolutely true. thing is, if you walk with the Lord then He's a 24/7 presence friend, and is more than glad to give you instructions and give you His Judgements to live by. acknowledging that God is the Judge of what is good for you in all things is very wise.

one can't live the Life He has given you via His Son Jesus Christ with out His Ways and Knowledge to do so.

 

[popsthebuilder]

so you are the judge of what is good for you, correct?

and you are saying what God gave man is flawed, correct?

A&E heard the Voice of the Lord that came into the garden, also Adam heard the commandment or agreement in the case of the trees in the garden. and yes they were not faithful to the agreement or commandment if you like, meaning faithful to whom they were in the agreement with.


as far as your statement on people, all know, whether they deny it or not, that there is a higher nature (a perfect nature) then human nature, meaning their own nature.

I didn't say I was the judge of what is good or that what GOD gave man is flawed.

Yes; pretty much everyone should be able to conclude that there is a higher power than self.

 

[The_drake_]

I'm not looking for proof, I posed the question of whether or not man can prove God exists.


also the sigh of the generation you come from in your statement even if the bible was verified by tv cameras.

which would make one think you believe and trust tv. science has nothing to do with this, since God is God He does nothing at the will of another therefore science can't demonstrate the Living God to others.

again reason isn't the way because one isn't the judge of whether God is God or not.

no faith is the relationship that is acceptable to God with man, as in faithful. but acts like with Moses are verified by the witness thereof. read exodus chapter 20, which verified that the acts they experienced and witness were of the Lord God. and many of those people despite what they seen and experienced were not faithful.

but witnesses can only tell you what they seen for themselves.

I'm not sure I totally understand your response. If you're saying faith is the way then we agree.

No, man cannot prove God exists with 100% certainty more than he can prove anything else.

I suppose you mean it in the general sense in which it is used by skeptics, which is, where "prove" = "can you work your Christian God into a testable/falsifiable hypothesis which can be supported/rejected via unbiased data collection, observations, experimentation, etc"

The answer to that is no. People who claim otherwise just make us look ridiculous to potential converts who are decently educated, and it comes off as disingenuous, and even further leads people to question their faith when they find out what's been hidden under the rug down the line.

This is an error evangelical ministers are frequently guilty of.

4 accounts which obviously borrow heavily from each other and which were copied hundreds of times by potentially biased monks are not "indefatigable proof" that what the Bible says about Jesus is true, and no Christian that I know of is actually a believer because of such a reason.

There are plenty of pagan accounts which have internal consistency, yet Christians reject these.

You believe because you know it to be true, you hear the truth in the words.

This is, and always has been the case.

A microscopic obscure sect from a tiny alien religion in a strategically unimportant (if rebellious) provincial backwater didn't take over and topple the worlds greatest empire because of 4 unimportant random laymen Jews agreed on an seemingly impossible set of facts, it did so because their words, the words of the one they followed, cut across alien cultures yet still rang true in the hearts of the people.

 

[Mr G Lee]

It would seem true that man can’t prove there is a God of which I am inclined to believe, but faith isn’t proof that there is a Living God. How many pagans believe in gods that don’t exist? They have faith in their gods, does that prove they exist?

Sure, one can say they are man made therefore they exist but gods like Zeus and the like. Do they exist because people had faith in them?

Pulse a Living God exists no matter what anybody believes or trusts or has faith in Him. The Almighty existed before anything else that exists existed.

The law of Faith comes by hearing God not seen not the philosophies of men as theories as those seen. .

 

[Bladerunner]

The law of Faith comes by hearing God not seen not the philosophies of men as theories as those seen. .

Let me ask you since you are a star child I see.....do you think that Satan and His fallen angels just might be those gods that the Greek , etc. like to worship..After all it is Satan's world and he is the god of this world at least for right now.

Blade

 

[DPMartin]

The law of Faith comes by hearing God not seen not the philosophies of men as theories as those seen. .

no, faith comes by hearing, the law of faith was established in the first covenant or commandment with Adam. the requirement is faithful, that is the law, to be faithful in the agreement, in this case, the agreement with God. God even calls the ten commandments a covenant in Moses' day Jesus is the everlasting covenant (agreement). one is required to be faithful to the agreement. that is the law of faith that is enforced.

 

[Mr G Lee]

no, faith comes by hearing, the law of faith was established in the first covenant or commandment with Adam. the requirement is faithful, that is the law, to be faithful in the agreement, in this case, the agreement with God. God even calls the ten commandments a covenant in Moses' day Jesus is the everlasting covenant (agreement). one is required to be faithful to the agreement. that is the law of faith that is enforced.

Yes the law of faith in respect to the faith of God alone as it is written in the law and prophets .or called Moses and Elijah the unseen law and its testimony. . the prophets. .

Jesus fullfed the covenant given to Moses .It was not a new used to replace the old they work as one.

The law . Let there be and it was good (the testimony) testifying that God performed the works .If mankind does not speak according to those two witnesses of God then we are informed there is no light of the gospel on the path .

The law of faith is revealed in those who have no faith (as it is written) , Thye canot please God the author and finisher of our new born again faith .They have no power. Coming from God

Un converted mankind is accredited with no faith not little none. believers a considered as little faith (not of thier own selves.) ... Rather than prophecy the un regenerated seek after lying signs to continue their wondering never coming to the end of faith the salvation of a new soul.

Deuteronomy 32:20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

Romans 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

All that the father has given the Son . . they who were given mercy and grace alone can come.