Jesus' Testimony

[meshak]

John 10:30 "I and the Father are one."
John 16:26 "I came from the Father and entered the world; now I am leaving the world and going back to the Father."
John 17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself,with the glory which I had with You before the world was."

So you dismiss Jesus' clear and simple testimony about Him and His Father/s identification.

This is for your like-minded friend Missy too.

You guys are so sad.

 

[Sissy]

So you dismiss Jesus' clear and simple testimony about Him and His Father/s identification.

So you dismiss Jesus' clear and simple testimony about Him and His Father in John???
Trins take all of Jesus' testimony, and also all of the testimony of the prophets, and the testimony of the apostles.

This is for your like-minded friend Missy too.

My name is not Missy.

You guys are so sad.

Nope.

 

[Arial]

So you dismiss Jesus' clear and simple testimony about Him and His Father/s identification.

This is for your like-minded friend Missy too.

You guys are so sad.

That is Jesus' clear and simple testimony about Him and His Father's id. Are you dismissing it?
Notice in the first two passages He says the Father.

 

[freelight]

John 20:17
Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”

Indeed, Jesus always directed us to worship 'God' Alone - this 'God' is the Father of all. - all sons of God have 'God' as their Father.

A trinity doctrine as defined by Catholic orthodox creed or theology is by no means absolutely 'true', 'logical' or 'plausible', but is one possible interpretation or belief one may adopt. The question is, is such a belief or concept necessary? I dont see it as that, as many kinds of 'Christology' or even of a 'Godhead' association can be entertained, take your pick

Its those that are 'claiming' there is a 'Trinity' as per creed definition that must provide proofs, but I dont think 'God' is impressed either way, since Jesus teachings about 'God' are pretty clear, but subject to various interepretations. Since 'God' is love and is spirit, He looks at the heart first, while the law of karma takes care of everything else in the realm of cause/effect,....these are universal laws. If you love, you will fulfill God's law, and enjoy life and all its possibilities, all that life has to offer to infinity.

Jesus always as a MAN, directed us to 'God' alone, I think on this point most 'theists' would agree.


--------o

 

[Jasher]

So are you saying His testimony is not credible?

Credible is based upon the truthfulness of the facts presented in the testimony.

He says that under the OT law that the testimony of two men was true.

• Do you know whether or not the OT law states that the testimony of two men makes there testimony true?

He testifies "I am one that bear witness of myself."

• Do you believe that in his statement he was testifying about himself?

He testifies "...and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me

• His reference to the testimony of two men being true then how do you draw the conclusion than he is stating that his Father is God?

_____________
From my understanding the OT law does not state that the testimony of two men is true. So where do you see it written that the testimony of two men is true?

 

[7thMoon]

Credible is based upon the truthfulness of the facts presented in the testimony.

He says that under the OT law that the testimony of two men was true.

• Do you know whether or not the OT law states that the testimony of two men makes there testimony true?

He testifies "I am one that bear witness of myself."

• Do you believe that in his statement he was testifying about himself?

He testifies "...and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me

• His reference to the testimony of two men being true then how do draw the conclusion than he is stating that his Father is a man? And if this Father is not a Man then why would he claim to be the Son of Man?

_____________
From my understanding the OT law does not state that the testimony of two men is true. So where do you see it written that the testimony of two men is true?

I personally like how the Rabbis think there is no virgin birth in some of the New Testament, when they cannot understand the term sons of God. But I think the OT that we have is also errant and too short in many places.

 

[meshak]

Credible is based upon the truthfulness of the facts presented in the testimony.

He says that under the OT law that the testimony of two men was true.

• Do you know whether or not the OT law states that the testimony of two men makes there testimony true?

He testifies "I am one that bear witness of myself."

• Do you believe that in his statement he was testifying about himself?

He testifies "...and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me

• His reference to the testimony of two men being true then how do you draw the conclusion than he is stating that his Father is God?

_____________
From my understanding the OT law does not state that the testimony of two men is true. So where do you see it written that the testimony of two men is true?

So you don't believe His Father is not His God.

I feel so sad for you.

It seems that you are not reading the OT much.

 

[meshak]

Indeed, Jesus always directed us to worship 'God' Alone - this 'God' is the Father of all. - all sons of God have 'God' as their Father.

A trinity doctrine as defined by Catholic orthodox creed or theology is by no means absolutely 'true', 'logical' or 'plausible', but is one possible interpretation or belief one may adopt. The question is, is such a belief or concept necessary? I dont see it as that, as many kinds of 'Christology' or even of a 'Godhead' association can be entertained, take your pick

Its those that are 'claiming' there is a 'Trinity' as per creed definition that must provide proofs, but I dont think 'God' is impressed either way, since Jesus teachings about 'God' are pretty clear, but subject to various interepretations. Since 'God' is love and is spirit, He looks at the heart first, while the law of karma takes care of everything else in the realm of cause/effect,....these are universal laws. If you love, you will fulfill God's law, and enjoy life and all its possibilities, all that life has to offer to infinity.

Jesus always as a MAN, directed us to 'God' alone, I think on this point most 'theists' would agree.


--------o

You don't seem to believe anyone can be saved without believing in Jesus.

 

[meshak]

That is Jesus' clear and simple testimony about Him and His Father's id. Are you dismissing it?
Notice in the first two passages He says the Father.

bye, sweetie.

 

[Jasher]

I and the Father are one."

In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with the Spirit and the Word was Spirit.

"I came from the Father and entered the world;

Of course the Word comes from the Spirit, the Spirit doesn't come from the Word.

now I am leaving the world and going back to the Father."

So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. Isa 55:11




.

 

[7thMoon]

In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with the Spirit and the Word was Spirit.

Of course the Word comes from the Spirit, the Spirit doesn't come from the Word.

So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. Isa 55:11




.

Jibberish. nothing personal, but that is jibberish.

 

[freelight]

You don't seem to believe anyone can be saved without believing in Jesus.

As you know, I was affirming a biblical Unitarian view, but expanding on that, since it is clear and logical that a biblical Unitarian view of 'God' and 'Christ' is rational and appropriate in the grand context of things, theologically speaking - on this note, Arius and other Arian Christological views are just as plausible as various trinitarian ones,....just depends on what you want to believe and what makes more sense to you, - all is subject to our own limited, biased or preferred perceptions and beliefs, until we open to continued revelation and learning about the subjects at hand.....all viewpoints and assumptions are subject to change with new and better information, as we grow in knowledge. Only 'God' alone is absolute.

As far as 'Jesus' being the ONLY WAY, or the only way somehow that a soul can be 'saved' is wholly a matter of personal belief and what theology you subscribe to, your own belief-system and interpretation of scripture, and so on - it depends on WHO you ask doesnt it? and how you interpret the Bible. I dont see 'God' limited to a bible or any book or one religious tradition, since his infinity outshines and transcends all human knowledge and definition. Jesus of course is awesome to follow and use his life as an example and pattern for your own, for all human beings. If that path really does good and kindness to yourself and others, then by all means live that way and be open to MORE as well.

In any case, my pointing was to the Universal Father as the 'God' and 'Father' of all things and beings. All means all! This fundamental truth cannot be bypassed or dismissed as the fountain-head for all that exists, since this Source and Center is forever the Original SOURCE of all, the infinite HEART of all that exists to infinity. - this centering PRESENCE is that which emenates and generates all substance and form. - all else is a relative extension, product or offspring of the First Father.

So, I agree with Jesus of course, as pointing to his Father as the One Universal Source and Creator, whose essence and power alone is the creative force and consciousness that upholds all and brings all things into existence. This view is the only one that honors and affords 'God' the title and description of actually being a Father in relational context to all other beings and personalities. The First Father is unbegotten, while all sons have a time of 'begetting'. - this was the main contention in the Arian Controversy.

See: A Re-appraisal of Arian Christology



-----------o