If you were stranded on a deserted island...

[Mr E]

Indeed. It's also interesting to see how it was possible for this to happen if the helper is the same as the HS, since the helpper was to come after, but it seems the spirit was already there.

It's perhaps because you haven't properly considered what 'the helper' is....

Then the LORD God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him.” Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name. The man gave names to all the cattle, and to the birds of the sky, and to every beast of the field, but for Adam there was not found a helper suitable for him.

So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; then He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place. The LORD God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man. The man said,

“This is now bone of my bones,
And flesh of my flesh;
She shall be called Woman,
Because she was taken out of Man.”

For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.

"The helper" is the means by which one examines himself. Consider the holy spirit to be a mirror with which one can examine themselves. A means to look at one's own image in a spiritual sense and the physical is that which reflects the spiritual.

 

[The_drake_]

It's perhaps because you haven't properly considered what 'the helper' is....

Then the LORD God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him.” Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name. The man gave names to all the cattle, and to the birds of the sky, and to every beast of the field, but for Adam there was not found a helper suitable for him.

So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; then He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place. The LORD God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man. The man said,

“This is now bone of my bones,
And flesh of my flesh;
She shall be called Woman,
Because she was taken out of Man.”

For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.

"The helper" is the means by which one examines himself. Consider the holy spirit to be a mirror with which one can examine themselves. A means to look at one's own image in a spiritual sense and the physical is that which reflects the spiritual.

Is this one of those "the Holy Spirit is female" things? Or are using the feminine as a metaphor? I don't really care about the gender of the HS. I just meant he said he was sending the helper/comforter after he was going away, yet some were seemingly saved or made clean before he left, which is interesting. I was merely suggesting that perhaps these are two distinct figures, i don't know really, because we know the hs was already there with Jesus.

 

[Pipiripi]

I ask God to send the big fish that swallow Jonah, or I ask God to help me make an ark like the one of Noah, so I can comeback in civilisation with the animals to show the Sunday worshippers, that the animals clean and unclean has listen what is written in the Bible.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

LOL, Just recently you worked quite hard to convince me that the Holy Prophets in the OT were "robbers and Thieves, who came to Kill and Destroy". And you selected JN. 7-10, as support for this teaching. I used this verse above, and several others in defense and support of my belief that God's Prophets HE SENT, in which the Spirit of Christ resided, were not "robbers and Thieves, who came to Kill and Destroy". And that Jesus was referring to the "Priest's" which came before Him, who had corrupted the Covenant God made with Levi. But to no avail, as these Scriptures were not able to persuade you.

But Now you are using this same Scripture, it seems, to promote the religious philosophy that these same Prophets, who you claim are were all "robbers and Thieves, who came to Kill and Destroy" are NOW "Shadows" of Jesus? So which is it?

It is not a which is it, as one or the other.

When Moses stood between God and the people we can understand that Moses was moved by the spirit of Christ in him.
There are those who think this was done to show that men can change God's mind.
But in this instance the spirit was teaching one of the things Christ Jesus would do.
Which is stand between the people and God making intercession for them.

When Moses and Aaron disobeyed God at the waters of strife we can understand that they were not moved by the spirit of Christ.
They robbed God of his glory and usurped it for themselves.
God in his infinite wisdom allowed it and gave water from the rock despite their thievery.
By striking the rock (Christ), instead of speaking to it (Him), Moses the lawgiver and his sidekick high priest Aaron signified they were murderers of the Messiah.

John 10: 7-11

7Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

8All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

9I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

10The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

The "People" in the OT were not a "shadow" of Jesus 1M1S. As it is written in your own Bible;

Heb. 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.

4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: (What "LAW"? Love God and Your neighbor and all that hangs on them? Or the Covenant God made with Levi?)

5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

And Again;

1 Cor. 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers (The People in the OT) were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

The "People" in the OT were not Shadows of Christ Jesus.

Not sure what you're babbling about.
Of course the faithless murmurers were not representatives of the body of Christ.
The next generation that believed God and followed Joshua to the promised land are another set of folks.

It seems the Scriptures are teaching, that the Levitical Priesthood "After the Order of Aaron" was a "shadow" of the Prophesied Priesthood "After the Order of Melchizedek".

No.

 

[Mungo]

If one was alone with the Bible and had no outside influence, they would read how we are not to call no brother in Christ 'father', and how we are not to bow to the works of our hands, and how Jesus is the one who intercedes for us.

And your evidence for those claims?

 

[God's Truth]

And your evidence for those claims?

Matthew 23:9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
Matthew 23:8 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers.

Isaiah 2:8 Their land is full of idols; they bow down to the work of their hands, to what their fingers have made.
Micah 5:13 I will destroy your idols and your sacred stones from among you; you will no longer bow down to the work of your hands.

Romans 8:34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.

 

[Jasher]

I tend to go along with the Angel as well as these folks who also do.

Mr. Einstein does have a point regarding the part about it being written that they signed unto Zacharias what regarding what the name of child should be.

And they made signs to his father, how he would have him called. Luke 1:62

But Mr. E is unable to perceive is why they were using gestures to find out what Zacharias wanted the name of the child to be.

but when he came out, he was unable to speak to them; and they realized that he had seen a vision in the temple; and he kept making signs to them, and remained mute.

And it happened that on the eighth day they came to circumcise the child, and they were going to call him Zacharias, after his father. But his mother answered and said, “No indeed; but he shall be called John.” And they said to her, “There is no one among your relatives who is called by that name.” And they made signs to his father, as to what he wanted him called.

Because they presumed he could couldn't hear because they presumed he couldn't speak.
Luke 1:63
And he asked for a writing table, and wrote, saying, His name is John. And they marvelled all. KJV
He asked for a writing tablet, and to everyone’s astonishment he wrote, “His name is John.” NIV
And he asked for a tablet and wrote as follows, “His name is John.” And they were all amazed. NASB
He asked for a writing tablet and wrote, "His name is John." And they were all amazed. NET

 

[Mungo]

Thank you. Now let's look at those.

Matthew 23:9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
Matthew 23:8 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers.

We don't call our priests "father". We address them as Father.
So no problem there.

Isaiah 2:8 Their land is full of idols; they bow down to the work of their hands, to what their fingers have made.
Micah 5:13 I will destroy your idols and your sacred stones from among you; you will no longer bow down to the work of your hands.

Isaiah 2:8 (KJV)
Their land also is full of idols;
They worship the work of their own hands,
That which their own fingers have made:

Micah 5:13 (KJV)
Thy graven images also will I cut off,
And thy standing images out of the midst of thee;
And thou shalt no more worship the work of thine hands.

Clearly the context is worship.
We do not worship statues, nor the persons they represent (except Jesus)

Romans 8:34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.

That doesn't say that Jesus is the only one interceding for us. Protestants have a habit of inserting only or alone into the Bible where is doesn't exist. It also says Jesus is also interceding for us.

According to Rom 8:27 the Holy Spirit intercedes for us. So Jesus is not the only one
Rom 8:27 (KJV) "And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God."

 

[God's Truth]

Thank you. Now let's look at those.


We don't call our priests "father". We address them as Father.
So no problem there.

Jesus says not to call them 'father'. That is about not being addressed as 'father'.

Isaiah 2:8 (KJV)
Their land also is full of idols;
They worship the work of their own hands,
That which their own fingers have made:

Micah 5:13 (KJV)
Thy graven images also will I cut off,
And thy standing images out of the midst of thee;
And thou shalt no more worship the work of thine hands.

Clearly the context is worship.
We do not worship statues, nor the persons they represent (except Jesus)

We are not to bow before the works of our hands.
Catholics bow before statues, the works of their hands.

That doesn't say that Jesus is the only one interceding for us. Protestants have a habit of inserting only or alone into the Bible where is doesn't exist. It also says Jesus is also interceding for us.

Jesus is the only one at the right hand of God interceding for us.
We must go through Jesus to get to the Father.

According to Rom 8:27 the Holy Spirit intercedes for us. So Jesus is not the only one
Rom 8:27 (KJV) "And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God."

The Holy Spirit IS the Spirit of Jesus.

 

[Mr E]

Mr. Einstein does have a point regarding the part about it being written that they signed unto Zacharias what regarding what the name of child should be.

And they made signs to his father, how he would have him called. Luke 1:62

But Mr. E is unable to perceive is why they were using gestures to find out what Zacharias wanted the name of the child to be.





Because they presumed he could couldn't hear because they presumed he couldn't speak.
Luke 1:63
And he asked for a writing table, and wrote, saying, His name is John. And they marvelled all. KJV
He asked for a writing tablet, and to everyone’s astonishment he wrote, “His name is John.” NIV
And he asked for a tablet and wrote as follows, “His name is John.” And they were all amazed. NASB
He asked for a writing tablet and wrote, "His name is John." And they were all amazed. NET

I'm unable to follow the point you are trying to make, which seems to be the point I already made.

 

[Mr E]

Is this one of those "the Holy Spirit is female" things? Or are using the feminine as a metaphor? I don't really care about the gender of the HS. I just meant he said he was sending the helper/comforter after he was going away, yet some were seemingly saved or made clean before he left, which is interesting. I was merely suggesting that perhaps these are two distinct figures, i don't know really, because we know the hs was already there with Jesus.

-Has nothing to do with gender. Jesus explains it in all as is recorded in the book of John. The spirit of God that was in him was going to be sent again to them-- that is 'the helper' that was coming to them-- in whose power they would do miracles as he had done. Read John 14-17.

 

[Mungo]

Jesus says not to call them 'father'. That is about not being addressed as 'father'.

You are committing the logical fallacy of equivocation.

We are not to bow before the works of our hands.
Catholics bow before statues, the works of their hands.

We don't worship statues.

Jesus is the only one at the right hand of God interceding for us.
We must go through Jesus to get to the Father.
The Holy Spirit IS the Spirit of Jesus.

The Holy Spirit is the third personal of the Trininty not the Second person.
Also as I pointed out the Bible does not say Jesus is the only one who can intercede.
Moreover Paul writes to Timothy
First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men,