Did God Through Jesus Christ Reconcile - All of the World ?

[Mattathias]

Doubtful.

2 Thessalonians 2 ESV​

(1) Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers,​

(2) not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.​

(3) Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,​

(4) who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.​

(5) Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?​

(6) And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time.​

(7) For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.​

(8) And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming.​

Titus wasn't killed by the breath of His mouth at His coming.

My point exactly. If the Great Tribulation is connected with the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD then Titus should have met his end as Daniel described. He didn’t.

Daniel, and I suggest Jesus, have a different event in mind; one that is still future.

 

[DancesWithGnostics]

• Eusebius of Caesarea who co-authored and co-signed the Nicene Creed was also a Preterist. He taught the Christ returned in the destruction of Jerusalem AD70. "But the things which took place afterwards, did our Saviour, from his foreknowledge as the Word, or God, foretel should come to pass, by means of those which are (now) before us.

Eusebius the Preterist | Christian Forums
www.christianforums.com/threads/eusebius-the-preterist.7789162/

 

[Sissy]

My point exactly. If the Great Tribulation is connected with the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD then Titus should have met his end as Daniel described. He didn’t.

Daniel, and I suggest Jesus, have a different event in mind; one that is still future.

Definitely seems to be future.

None of the usual suspects ---- Titus, Nero, etc. ------ showed signs and wonders that would make the world think they were a god, nor were they killed by the breath of the Lord at His coming when the faithful are gathered together with Him.

But there is speculation as to when the "great tribulation" will happen ......
Before the 1000 years when Satan is bound in the bottomless pit for 1000 years, or after he is released? (Rev 20)
I have heard some suggest that it will be after since they figure Satan will be more pissed off at that time and inflict the most damage.

 

[Mattathias]

• Eusebius of Caesarea who co-authored and co-signed the Nicene Creed was also a Preterist. He taught the Christ returned in the destruction of Jerusalem AD70. "But the things which took place afterwards, did our Saviour, from his foreknowledge as the Word, or God, foretel should come to pass, by means of those which are (now) before us.

Eusebius the Preterist | Christian Forums
www.christianforums.com/threads/eusebius-the-preterist.7789162/

Dr. Lee demonstrates from the writings of Eusebius that Eusebius was an historicist, not a preterist. See the link.

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www.bucer.de

I find Lee’s demonstration convincing.

 

[DancesWithGnostics]

If there is any major position in theology - Matt finds a way to get it WRONG.

 

[Sissy]

If there is any major position in theology - Matt finds a way to get it WRONG.

A gentle nudge ....

It would be more helpful to all if you would just lay out what you believe to be the right way rather than clutter a thread with a personal opinion of Matt.
(Not just directed at you but for all to do their best to stay focused, including myself.)
It would be appreciated.

 

[Mattathias]

If there is any major position in theology - Matt finds a way to get it WRONG.

hoo-wah

On the strength of the prophets, the world would look and be very different if the second coming of Jesus had occurred in 70 AD. The restoration of all things (Acts 3:21) hasn’t happened yet.

 

[DancesWithGnostics]

I am Partial Preterist. I too believe the resoration of all things is still to come.

 

[Geoff]

With Romans 11, I just assume the remnant is the minority and some are blinded. It is because Israel was blinded that the Gentiles were brought in. I'm not a covenant believer.

Using your own words, could you please explain why you don't think Romans 11 addresses the complete overview of the Gentiles being included into the new covenant with Israel?
I give these few verses below so that you might understand why I ask.

Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Col 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[MatthewG]

You know for me pretty much everything was written prior the the destruction of Jerusalem. Lot of people believe that going full Preterist or whatever is Heretical and takes away any hope of the return. If you ask someone today if Jesus Christ is with them today and they say yes; what is the point in waiting in a hope of a return other than the return of your soul going on after this life to be resurrected into a spiritual body after this life in accordance to 1 Corinthians 15?

So to me... my belief is in accordance to Daniel 7:14 And to him is given dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, and all peoples, nations, and languages do serve him, his dominion is a dominion age-during, that passeth not away, and his kingdom that which is not destroyed.

There will always be people coming into the kingdom forever, and nothing will ever stop this from happening because it has been stated that the Kingdom will never be destroyed -- this world will go on forever even after our lives here have ended.

 

[MatthewG]

@Mattathias I have made a video on Titus 1:1-4; using a little book called :Bible overview and this is what it had said about The Letter Paul wrote to Titus.

Spoiler

Getting into the Letter of Titus we find out that it is a letter written to Titus, the pastor of of the churches of Crete to appoint responsible elders in the midst of false teaching and immoral behavior. Written around Ad 64 - 66, by Paul.

 

[Geoff]

It has, but we sure do not see the fulfillment of it yet. This world is a train wreck, and going to get worse before it gets better, and the only way it's going to get better is when Jesus Christ comes back and takes over.

I sit somewhere between you and MatthewG, though probably closer to you.
The question I would ask you is, since Jesus has reconciled us to God, what is it that impedes you from the new covenant being fulfilled in you?
In other words, why did the spirit of Christ come?