Belief a Conscious Choice?

[Bladerunner]

Man has a will that he can also use to seek God, and many do. You did. I did. Every Christian did.

God wants everyone to be saved. Salvation is available to anyone.

As God states, that there is ample proof that He indeed exist in the creation, etc. Man and His Free will should be able to remove themselves from Sin and seek GOD. Yet the Bible tells us in the Total Depravity Doctrine that Man will not seek GOD because of His dependency on sin. Without God's Help (Calling) man will not turn from the sin he is in and seek GOD....

Rom 8:30..."Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."

Here, we find that God Called those who were predestined. This calling conditioned their hearts and minds to seek out Jesus Christ. But then He says something else, Whom He called, also Justified. OOPS...

Man in no way can get to GOD through works of His own but rather through the gift(s) of GOD/Jesus

Blade

 

[shroom]

As God states, that there is ample proof that He indeed exist in the creation, etc. Man and His Free will should be able to remove themselves from Sin and seek GOD. Yet the Bible tells us in the Total Depravity Doctrine that Man will not seek GOD because of His dependency on sin. Without God's Help (Calling) man will not turn from the sin he is in and seek GOD....

The "Total Depravity" doctrine is false.

Rom 8:30..."Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."

Here, we find that God Called those who were predestined. This calling conditioned their hearts and minds to seek out Jesus Christ. But then He says something else, Whom He called, also Justified. OOPS...

The Christian church was predestined. It was God's secret (KJV: mystery) hidden from the foundation of the world. If the devil had known about it he would not have crucified Christ (1 Cor 2:7-8). If it was in the Bible (OT), the devil would have known about it.

Man in no way can get to GOD through works of His own but rather through the gift(s) of GOD/Jesus

Blade

Man can get to God (Jesus' Father) by deciding to believe on Jesus (God's Son, His human messiah).

 

[MatthewG]

God changed his own mind.

“Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, Your servants to whom You swore by Yourself, and said to them, ‘I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heavens, and all this land of which I have spoken I will give to your descendants, and they shall inherit it forever.’ ” So the Lord changed His mind about the harm which He said He would do to His people.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭32:13-14‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

All of you have a soul: mind-heart/will/emotions.

Totally in control of your own personage.

 

[MatthewG]

totally depraved is an reasonable statement Shroom.

I was depraved until realizing the truth and believing that God existed, and Lord Jesus Christ, existed and the holy spirit existed the three that make up the reality of heaven. because three are who are testifying in the heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these -- the three -- are one;

I was spiritually deprived until receiving the spirit. All people are spiritually dead until so. It’s not a complete totally unable to believe like assumption however we do have people that teach the word and access to bibles that is helpful in getting us to the truth.

 

[freelight]

In the closed topic, "Could you Choose to Believe in a Literal Santa Claus?" a poster wrote: "A person can decide to believe."
But once the decision is made that they want to believe something, is it then possible to go ahead and actually consciously engender the belief, i.e., be convinced, without doubt, that someone or something exists or that a certain proposition is true?

Lets look at beliefs in other 'persons' besides Santa Claus....like Jesus or 'God' - whoa, one might say ....could they all be compared? - each exist in their own traditional venue or custom and culture (conventional or religious) - lets dive into if they really exist just in our own minds, just like Santa Claus does to one degree or another. This should be fun

We would have to consider the motive and energy placed into any 'belief' and what might continue to 'engender' that belief in the face of more or less support or evidence for such. We could use any historical or mythical personality as well in this example, even Jesus as we've noted. - there are some ex-christians who no longer believe in 'Jesus' or the 'gospel' (or any particular version of 'Christianity' or its theology), but before did appear to have great 'faith' or 'belief' in it. What happend to make them change their 'belief'? (lots could have happened, as some people do change their beliefs as they evolve in time). So, there are many nuances here to consider on what belief we are 'choosing' at any given time, the content and context of such.

My approach in religion, philosophy, art, science is naunced by progressive revelation and learning, so you can apply the 'scientific method' to almost everything to some degree, in continually testing your 'beliefs, opinions, viewpoints, assumptions'...since with continued research and experience, you may change your previously held beliefs or opinions, as better or more reasonable data or revelation is forthcoming. So,...apart from universal fundamentals and 'first principles' (eternal laws or absolutes)....all is in flux and is more or less 'relative' (subject to change, evolution, revision). - life is co-creational on a 'creation/evolution' mode of existence......ever adaptive.

Lets use Jesus in this example,....one could argue there is little or no solid historical proof of Jesus outside of the NT record itself, while the gospels, book of Acts contain fictional narratives and other various embellishments, having perhaps both historical and mythical elements in them. Textual criticism is another issue, to which the Bible can be seen as full of anomolies typical to human works of literature (another subject).

One could argue Jesus may have a more substantial existence than 'Santa Claus', but how could you prove that just on the basis of tradition or cultural belief systems which have engendered a strong 'belief' in such characters?, each of course having their own nuance and sphere of influence. We could further bring 'God' into this, if He/She/IT exists as some kind of 'personality' or not, since we cant see 'God', neither the personalities mentioned previous. They only exist in our minds for the time being, although one can claim by 'faith' they 'know' or 'believe' they exist! (circular feedback loop?). So, maybe different criteria is applied to support the validity or probability of our 'beliefs', - maybe an interesting study to pursue

Im happy to really have no 'beliefs', as in this condition I'm free. I just AM - beliefs may help or serve me, or they may hinder and retard me (in this view I find non-dualism and zen type paths most refreshing). 'Faith' is of a different nuance than 'belief' however, so may apply to a different realm altogether.

-------------o

 

[MatthewG]

Hi freelight, I’m too simple, I get lost in to many words. The message of Christ is simple. Thankfully.

 

[freelight]

Hi freelight, I’m too simple, I get lost in to many words. The message of Christ is simple. Thankfully.

- hi Matt, thats fine....my musings are not for all, but for those who 'choose' to pursue and explore them - simplicity is good indeed. I tend to be verbose at time and have to reel it back in,...and edit/craft the logos-flow....its always interesting. Enjoy.


------o

 

[Grace Accepted]

And there you have it.

Indeed.

 

[rstrats]

Sometimes. But people decide what they want to believe.

And then after they decide what it is that they would like to believe, how do they/you go ahead and actually consciously engender the belief? As I've said, I've never been able to do that and so far no one that I have asked to demonstrate such an ability has complied with my request.

 

[rstrats]

Grace Accepted,

First you write, "Personally, I would never want to consciously choose or reject a belief." But then you write, "I choose what to believe or disbelieve..."

So which is it?

 

[Bladerunner]

The "Total Depravity" doctrine is false.

The Christian church was predestined. It was God's secret (KJV: mystery) hidden from the foundation of the world. If the devil had known about it he would not have crucified Christ (1 Cor 2:7-8). If it was in the Bible (OT), the devil would have known about it.

Man can get to God (Jesus' Father) by deciding to believe on Jesus (God's Son, His human messiah).

again total depravity is biblical but again you deny it....How many more doctrines are you going to deny.
These are God's doctrines

Blade

 

[Mr G Lee]

Man can get to God (Jesus' Father) by deciding to believe on Jesus (God's Son, His human messiah).

No one of their own volition can beleive His word empowers the believer to both reveal the will and again empower that to do it to the good pleasure of God. Not to our own pleasure . he promises us he wil not foget the god works we cna perform acoring to his name or power

Romans 3:10 As it (The faith of Christ) is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

He found us and gave us His faith by which we can believe as a anchor to our new born again soul.