Why works for hire will fail to earn you salvation.

[Arial]

Which I don't believe I said or implied.. Yes, being saved = being born again. How else does one recieve or believe unless they decide to? Are they coerced or restrained to receive or believe? It is the will of God that those who receive and believe become the His children.

Correct, hearing does not guarantee a result of someone believing. The one hearing makes a choice whether to receive and believe what they hear, but regardless if one believes or not - that's how faith comes.

By being enabled to believe something that to the natural man is foolishness. It is the hard heart removed. I new heart given. Blind eyes opened. Deaf ears that now hear. All thing only God can do. We cannot do these things ourselves. Calling it being coerced or restrained is just that "old" man standing up and shaking his fist.

It is grace, not coercion.

 

[Arial]

The natural man is more concerned with the things of this life, worldly things and has no time for understanding nor spiritually discerning the things of God.

It actually says he can't, not that he has no time for it.

 

[Arial]

These are examples of negative personal opinions of other members.
We should all try to avoid negative personal opinions of other members as they offer nothing to the context of the topic.
Thanks.

Those restraints are crippling. For one thing, it is done by most people for months on end with no reprimands and then bam, today, we can scarcely dare to speak our mind at all or speak at all. There is no difference to one who reads a comment, between a negative personal opinion and a negative opinion of what they believe. and there isn't in the one who writes the negative opinion either.

Studyman is an example of someone who has carte blanche in what he says to people with never being corrected.

 

[patience]

By being enabled to believe something that to the natural man is foolishness. It is the hard heart removed. I new heart given. Blind eyes opened. Deaf ears that now hear. All thing only God can do. We cannot do these things ourselves. Calling it being coerced or restrained is just that "old" man standing up and shaking his fist.

It is grace, not coercion.

It actually says he can't, not that he has no time for it.

What is grace? What is faith?

What is natural man? Is it or is it not someone who is more concerned with the things of this world, worldly? Is it available for the living word of God to cut through to someone's heart? Bottom line - God says faith comes from hearing and hearing from the word of God.

 

[Arial]

What is grace? What is faith?

What is natural man? Is it or is it not someone who is more concerned with the things of this world, worldly? Is it available for the living word of God to cut through to someone's heart? Bottom line - God says faith comes from hearing and hearing from the word of God.

Grace is something given that is completely undeserved. We don't deserve to be saved. We don't deserve anything from God. It is God's grace that made a way for us in Christ. And it is grace that supplies us from the fountain head of God, with everything we need. Faith in the context of saving faith, is an absolute trust that who Jesus is and what He did is how we were saved. Not by anything we do or have done or will do. If it is in the power of our own ability to decide to choose Him, then the thing that makes salvation actual is us.

When the Bible speaks of the natural man it means the same thing it does when it refers to our flesh. It is the natural condition of man and his will apart from God and spiritual quickening by Him. The Bible says faith comes by hearing because you cannot have faith in something you never heard. If you hear and believe it is because you have been quickened to life---born again of God.

 

[patience]

Grace is something given that is completely undeserved. We don't deserve to be saved. We don't deserve anything from God. It is God's grace that made a way for us in Christ. And it is grace that supplies us from the fountain head of God, with everything we need.

I agree that grace is God's unmerted favor toward us and grace is given out of God's loving kindness towards us.

Faith in the context of saving faith, is an absolute trust that who Jesus is and what He did is how we were saved. Not by anything we do or have done or will do. If it is in the power of our own ability to decide to choose Him, then the thing that makes salvation actual is us.

I agree that the #1 definition of faith is trust but would also add to it confidence, reliance, belief, and assurance in who Christ is and what he accomplished for us. What are you referring to when you use the term "saving faith"? So, trust is not something we do, or will do? Who does the trusting?

When the Bible speaks of the natural man it means the same thing it does when it refers to our flesh. It is the natural condition of man and his will apart from God and spiritual quickening by Him. The Bible says faith comes by hearing because you cannot have faith in something you never heard. If you hear and believe it is because you have been quickened to life---born again of God.

Right, we can't trust in someone we have never heard of - How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in Him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? . . . So then faith (trust) comes from hearing and hearing from the word of God. Is it available for the living word of God to cut through someone's heart?

So, we only trust because God quickens us first? (Doesn't sound like Ephesians 1:13 to me) We don't trust in Christ first and because of our trust in Christ - God quickens us?

From our definitions let's look at the verse in question again: For by God's unmerited favor you have been saved through trust. And that [the result- salvation] not of yourselves: it is the gift of God. Not of works [works of the law; see previous verses to GA], lest any man boast.
IOW, I can't boast in keeping dietary laws, in keeping thecsabbath, etc. because that had nothing to do with it! My salvation is dependent on my trust in Christ.

 

[Grace Accepted]

Ezekiel's dry bones are the remains of dead people and is in the context of the resurrection. The natural man is more concerned with the things of this life, worldly things and has no time for understanding nor spiritually discerning the things of God.

Where did you get this idea from? Ez 37:11 strongly counters your position. Then he said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. Behold, they say, ‘Our bones are dried up, and our hope is lost; we are indeed cut off.’

Dead people don't talk.

If I am not relying on the works of the law for salvation, then what am I boasting in? How can I boast in receiving Jesus Christ and believing in his name and the result being the gift of God, eternal life? It's what God has promised . . .the free gift of God is eternal life in, through, and by Jesus Christ.

It is not you specifically, I was using you generically. I should have use "one" instead of "you." Why did you receive Jesus while others didn't? What was it you did that they didn't and why?

Where has anyone contradicted Paul?.

So, what you are saying is that a "spiritually dead" person has none of his five senses, no intellect whatsoever. God wants love from humans that is derived from coercion - He uses overwhelming pressure to get people to love him?

God makes those that are spiritually dead alive so that they can hear him, feel him, know him. Then they can chose where as before they couldn't because it was all foolishness to them.

Explain this verse to me.

1 Cor 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Why is it foolishness to them but not to us?

 

[Arial]

I agree that the #1 definition of faith is trust but would also add to it confidence, reliance, belief, and assurance in who Christ is and what he accomplished for us.

Confidence, reliance, belief, assurance, are all a part of trust. Believing Jesus saves.

What are you referring to when you use the term "saving faith"? So, trust is not something we do, or will do? Who does the trusting?

The faith that saves. The faith given is believing that Jesus is who He says He is and did what He says He did. The faith is in Jesus.

Is it available for the living word of God to cut through someone's heart?

It is called the living word of God because His word is Him. It accomplishes that for which He sends it out. If someone isn't brought to life by it, He did not send it to do that---at least not at that moment. I heard it, read it, many times and didn't believe it. Until I did.

So, we only trust because God quickens us first? (Doesn't sound like Ephesians 1:13 to me) We don't trust in Christ first and because of our trust in Christ - God quickens us?

Eph 1:13-14 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased, to the praise of His glory.
This is not Paul giving a chronological order of salvation. He is saying that if you believed the gospel, you are saved and when that happened you were sealed with the Holy Spirit, which is our assurance that all the promises of salvation, the fulness of our redemption is secure.

From our definitions let's look at the verse in question again: For by God's unmerited favor you have been saved through trust. And that [the result- salvation] not of yourselves: it is the gift of God. Not of works [works of the law; see previous verses to GA], lest any man boast.
IOW, I can't boast in keeping dietary laws, in keeping thecsabbath, etc. because that had nothing to do with it! My salvation is dependent on my trust in Christ.

Salvation and faith are equal to each other. Not separate occurrences. You cannot take this verse legitimately to be saying that our faith causes God to grant us salvation. That would no longer be grace. It would be our faith, found within ourselves all by ourselves. It would be the natural man being the quickening power that ignites God's grace or salvation. It is not feasible, knowing what we know of God, that salvation is a gift, but useless He also gives us what is necessary to attain salvation.

And there is nothing that suggests that when Paul says "Not of works," that he is referring to the Mosaic covenant law.

 

[MatthewG]

In 2016, there was a day in my life where something was wrong with me over-al things my heart was full of darkness. It was the first year that I had become a believer. My thoughts were on my heart and telling myself that there is something wrong with me and there is only one I have ever heard been able to heal it, that would be the Lord Jesus Christ. From the day, which I had turned on some preachers talking about the Bible, Paul washer (we differ in some of our perspectives), was the one who helped give me the push to start questioning who, and what is God, and who is the this Jesus fellow that I do not know much about. When first starting going to read the Bible, my life changed but it was not a good change. My attitude became judgmental towards others, and it was very unhelpful, this is just the infancy of having be born again. As the years went on and continued to read the Bible and also listen to a person who came around teaching the Bible online named Shawn McCraney. My attitude stopped and changed from being as judgmental and more merciful, and kind, even though sometimes judgments may come up they are not nearly as bad as they were looking down on others. So it seems that as you come to realizing that there is something wrong with yourself, and that you are in dire need of help, the biggest help a person can get is a grounded understanding of God (to the best of their ability with the use of the Bible), along with learning the history about Jesus and the story about the good news of Christ which was about the Kingdom of Christ.

 

[Grace Accepted]

Name one person I know.

Prove that you don't.

 

[shroom]

Eph 1:13-14 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased, to the praise of His glory.
This is not Paul giving a chronological order of salvation.

Of course it is.

Salvation and faith are equal to each other. Not separate occurrences.

When a person decides to have faith in Jesus Christ, THEN the person is saved.

You cannot take this verse legitimately to be saying that our faith causes God to grant us salvation.

Sure you can.

That would no longer be grace.

Of course it would. The fact that anyone can be saved is by grace.

It would be our faith, found within ourselves all by ourselves.

God requires us to have faith.

It would be the natural man being the quickening power that ignites God's grace or salvation. It is not feasible, knowing what we know of God, that salvation is a gift, but useless He also gives us what is necessary to attain salvation.

Salvation is a gift given when a person chooses to have faith.

 

[patience]

Where did you get this idea from? Ez 37:11 strongly counters your position. Then he said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. Behold, they say, ‘Our bones are dried up, and our hope is lost; we are indeed cut off.’

Dead people don't talk.

And he said to me, "Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord God, you know." Then he said to me, "Prophesy over these bones, and say to them, O dry bones, hear the word of the LORD. . . Thus says the LORD God tonthese bones: Behold, I will cause breath to enter you, and you shall live. . . Thus says THE LORD God: Behold, I will open your graves and raise you from your graves. . . . . Ezekiel 37:3,4,5,12

You're right dead people don't talk. The bones were not literally speaking but figuratively.

It is not you specifically, I was using you generically. I should have use "one" instead of "you." Why did you receive Jesus while others didn't? What was it you did that they didn't and why?

Simply, I trusted in the word of God which I heard and trusted in what Christ accomplished, which would be "saved through faith" - doesn't make me any better than anyone else. Everyone has the same opportunity. Some will trust in what they hear, some won't. For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes . . . . [Romans 1:16]

God makes those that are spiritually dead alive so that they can hear him, feel him, know him. Then they can chose where as before they couldn't because it was all foolishness to them.

Explain this verse to me.

1 Cor 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Why is it foolishness to them but not to us?

My first thought would be - who are the ones perishing? Wouldn't they be considered the ones who don't believe (trust in, have faith) in God's only Son and "to us who are being saved" - the ones who believe (trust in, have faith) in God's only Son. [John 3:16]

For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power. . . . For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the foolishness of what we preach to save those who believe. [1 Cor. 1:17,21]

Why some believe and some reject would be in the hearts and minds of each individual - so I really can't presume to answer for them.