Why works for hire will fail to earn you salvation.

[7thMoon]

Afterlife depends on the substance of the expectation. I tend to disregard the claims of cherry picking or mistranslation since no prophesy of scripture is of any private interpretation. If the thing hoped for is true, it really doesn't matter if one cherry picks or mistranslates the scripture which deceives them into disbelieving the truth since the truth is not based upon our interpretation of the scriptures.

In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; Titus 1:2

If someone believes that God promised them eternal life before the world began then they should understand that all things are not possible with God if they believe God cannot lie. What should I deny that all things are possible with God since I am seeing God has given them a strong delusion that they should believe a lie.

I asked if you believed in soul sleep.

 

[Grace Accepted]

An accusation without evidence can be disproven by facts which reprove the validity of the accusation. Admitting that there is no evidence to refute the accusation is the same as admitting to the accusation.

That is false. I can say you beat up people who you don't like and you would have a hard time proving me wrong.

 

[Grace Accepted]

A man can study the Bible for his entire life and never come any closer to the knowledge of the truth than a man who doesn't know how to read, except the man who doesn't know how to read knows he hasn't been taught how to read.

Ok, whatever that means. You skipped the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Arial]

""Yes, being born again; salvation. The key thing to note is: as many as received him, who believed in his name - these were given the right to become children of God - not by natural means but by the will of God. Which is what I believe I said: "The new birth is of God alone through faith in Jesus Christ", i.e. those who receive him, who believe in His name.

We don't get saved and then get born again. Being saved is being born again. And "received" and "who believed" do not have the words "decided to" or "chose to" in front of them. Those who receive and who believe, these are the ones who are the sons of God. Not of by our will or anything in any way to do with us, not our blood, not our desire, not our will. But only by the will of God.

Yes, we come to Jesus through the Father. The Father lovingly implores us through His word - Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me (v45b), i.e faith comes from hearing and hearing from the word of God.

And hearing does not guarantee believing. Only those who have learned from the Father. The news of the gospel is withheld from no one, but we are not our own light.

 

[Grace Accepted]

If one were speaking of "physical death" then right, "we could not hear, see, touch, taste or feel Him" - but spiritual death does not mean we can't hear, see, touch, taste or feel Him. When we hear the word of God, we have the ability to hear, see, touch, taste and feel Him and when we believe what we hear, we have the ability to accept what we have heard or reject what we have heard.

Yes, it does. Ezekiel's valley of the dry bones is exactly the depiction God gives us of the spiritually dead. These bones had to be prophesied over in order for God to bring them back to life. By "dead" God means dead. He does not select in exact words. As 1 Cor 2:14 states But the natural, nonspiritual man does not accept or welcome or admit into his heart the gifts and teachings and revelations of the Spirit of God, for they are folly (meaningless nonsense) to him; and he is incapable of knowing them [of progressively recognizing, understanding, and becoming better acquainted with them] because they are spiritually discerned and estimated and appreciated.

If we have the ability to hear, see, touch, taste and feel Him and when we believe what we hear, and the ability to accept what we have heard or reject what we have heard. We have first been made alive by Christ. Why do you think Paul wrote this?

You are boasting when you believe that it was your wise decisions that lead you to eternal life. You are placing yourself in a higher catagory than those who did not make such a wise discussion. But Paul warned us clearly, "it is not of yourself lest anyone should boast."

When was Paul's teaching contradicted and who contradicted it?

---by grace you have been saved----. . . . For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God.
i.e. - Salvation comes through faith by God's grace. (the new birth, result of your faith) is not your own doing - it is the gift of God.

There is nothing that says the new birth is because of your faith. It clearly says it is not of yourself, it is not of your doing. How did you get your faith? Where did it come from?

Not by works - I would associate the "not of works" to be speaking about the "works of the law".

It does not say the works of the law. It says, not of works. Our selfish hearts want something to boast about, but the truth is there is no good thing in us apart from Christ.

For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, . . . . [Rom. 3:20]

Yes, works of the law, or righteous things we have done (Titus 3:5) There is no place where Paul ties salvation to any kind of works whatsoever.

Then what becomes of our boasting? (glorying) It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? NO, but by the law of faith. For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from the works of the law . . . [Rom. 3:28]

But where did you get your faith? Are you saying that a spiritual dead person can have faith? Are you saying that a sinning sinner can suddenly conjure up faith?

yet we know that a person is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified. [Gal. 2:16]

Nor by any righteous deeds you do. It is not what you do, it is who you know. If it is what you do then we are all lost.

. . . Did you receive the spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? . . . Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith---[Gal. 3:2,5]

A spiritually dead person can't hear spiritually. Nor can have faith. They are dead to God.

Not a result of works, so that no one may boast . . . It's not by the works (of the law) - if it was one could boast or glory in oneself, but it is by faith in Jesus Christ to the glory of God.

Where does faith come from?

 

[Sissy]

You are boasting when you believe that it was your wise decisions that lead you to eternal life. You are placing yourself in a higher catagory than those who did not make such a wise discussion.

Your Calvinism is showing.


You're adding your Calvinism into the text.

You haven't paid any attention to scriptures before. Would you now?

It’s your prerogative to dismiss/deny whatever you like. It’s a common occurrence with you.

I think he is not the only one guilty of cherry picking and ignoring contradictions caused by mistranslation.

These are examples of negative personal opinions of other members.
We should all try to avoid negative personal opinions of other members as they offer nothing to the context of the topic.
Thanks.

 

[Grace Accepted]

These are examples of negative personal opinions of other members.
We should all try to avoid negative personal opinions of other members as they offer nothing to the context of the topic.
Thanks.

I disagree. The 'you' is a generic 'you'. Perhaps I should have made it clear by using the preferred pronoun "one" as in: One is boasting when one believes that it was they're wise decisions that lead one to eternal life. One is placing themselves in a higher category than those who did not make such a wise discussion.

This is why Paul said, "least anyone should boast."

 

[patience]

We don't get saved and then get born again. Being saved is being born again. And "received" and "who believed" do not have the words "decided to" or "chose to" in front of them. Those who receive and who believe, these are the ones who are the sons of God. Not of by our will or anything in any way to do with us, not our blood, not our desire, not our will. But only by the will of God.

Which I don't believe I said or implied.. Yes, being saved = being born again. How else does one recieve or believe unless they decide to? Are they coerced or restrained to receive or believe? It is the will of God that those who receive and believe become the His children.

And hearing does not guarantee believing. Only those who have learned from the Father. The news of the gospel is withheld from no one, but we are not our own light.

Correct, hearing does not guarantee a result of someone believing. The one hearing makes a choice whether to receive and believe what they hear, but regardless if one believes or not - that's how faith comes.

 

[Sissy]

Perhaps I should have made it clear by using the preferred pronoun "one" as in: One is boasting when one believes that it was they're wise decisions that lead one to eternal life. One is placing themselves in a higher category than those who did not make such a wise discussion.

Yeppers!
That way you give the same theology point but doesn't make it personal towards a posting member.

 

[Jasher]

That is false. I can say you beat up people who you don't like and you would have a hard time proving me wrong.

Name one person I know.

 

[Jasher]

I asked if you believed in soul sleep.

I believe all things unless I know I have a reason to believe that soul sleep is false. I have heard enough to know that unless the person gives their definition of what it means to them then I have no way of knowing what they mean by that term. Depending upon how you define soul sleep is the only way I know how to give an response.

Most definitions I have heard equate to a state of purgatory, where the soul is neither alive, nor dead, just existing in inanimate state until it expires. That can be seen in the flesh, so there is no reason to believe that it doesn't manifest from the soul that is asleep.

 

[patience]

Yes, it does. Ezekiel's valley of the dry bones is exactly the depiction God gives us of the spiritually dead. These bones had to be prophesied over in order for God to bring them back to life. By "dead" God means dead. He does not select in exact words. As 1 Cor 2:14 states But the natural, nonspiritual man does not accept or welcome or admit into his heart the gifts and teachings and revelations of the Spirit of God, for they are folly (meaningless nonsense) to him; and he is incapable of knowing them [of progressively recognizing, understanding, and becoming better acquainted with them] because they are spiritually discerned and estimated and appreciated.

If we have the ability to hear, see, touch, taste and feel Him and when we believe what we hear, and the ability to accept what we have heard or reject what we have heard. We have first been made alive by Christ. Why do you think Paul wrote this?

Ezekiel's dry bones are the remains of dead people and is in the context of the resurrection. The natural man is more concerned with the things of this life, worldly things and has no time for understanding nor spiritually discerning the things of God.

You are boasting when you believe that it was your wise decisions that lead you to eternal life. You are placing yourself in a higher catagory than those who did not make such a wise discussion. But Paul warned us clearly, "it is not of yourself lest anyone should boast."

When was Paul's teaching contradicted and who contradicted it?

If I am not relying on the works of the law for salvation, then what am I boasting in? How can I boast in receiving Jesus Christ and believing in his name and the result being the gift of God, eternal life? It's what God has promised . . .the free gift of God is eternal life in, through, and by Jesus Christ.

Where has anyone contradicted Paul?.

There is nothing that says the new birth is because of your faith. It clearly says it is not of yourself, it is not of your doing. How did you get your faith? Where did it come from?

It does not say the works of the law. It says, not of works. Our selfish hearts want something to boast about, but the truth is there is no good thing in us apart from Christ.

Yes, works of the law, or righteous things we have done (Titus 3:5) There is no place where Paul ties salvation to any kind of works whatsoever.

But where did you get your faith? Are you saying that a spiritual dead person can have faith? Are you saying that a sinning sinner can suddenly conjure up faith?

Nor by any righteous deeds you do. It is not what you do, it is who you know. If it is what you do then we are all lost.

A spiritually dead person can't hear spiritually. Nor can have faith. They are dead to God.

Where does faith come from?

So, what you are saying is that a "spiritually dead" person has none of his five senses, no intellect whatsoever. God wants love from humans that is derived from coercion - He uses overwhelming pressure to get people to love him?