Why does God give over people to a reprobate mind?

[MatthewG]

He does wish you would come to a knowledge of the truth, though. He wants that for all of us.

It all starts with having fear of the LORD that brings about knowledge and wisdom.

 

[ICHTHUS]

I believe that Jesus Christ is on the Throne with God as the Lord God Almighty, personally but I disagree with the notion that the whole bible is against me when it's pretty clear through it He was meant to return for that bride, which the Apostles governed over until the time of the end. Where the Wrath of God was poured out on the nation of Israel. Which ended material religion, and established the new covenant through Jesus Christ, where God writes his laws on the hearts of people who seek him out in faith, now today.

But it's a subjective view, that I pretty much place value in, where others do not, @ICHTHUS.

according to John 3:36, the wrath of God is on ALL those who are unbelievers and unsaved, and not just on the nation Israel

He that believeth on the Son, hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son, shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him

 

[MatthewG]

Well, that is something between you and God @ICHTHUS. As I believe that wrath John had talked about, did come to pass, along with Jesus and his predictions for that Generation along with his coming. You may believe that it is still to come by justifying your stance with the scripture but please be mindful that I have no reason to submit to your view, which could be valid and perhaps mine is wrong. The problem comes in if I start to badger you and poke and prod you for no reason, and by the spirit there is no reason to do that. It is better for me to just let you believe what you are going to because your mindset is already there on the reasonings you have.

Thank you for understanding.

 

[MatthewG]

Once God had poured his wrath upon the nation of Israel for their disobedience I believe the cup is empty. Unless people believe it fills up again, I do not subscribe that though. That is the simplest explanation that I can give.

 

[meshak]

If people have faith, it would be demonstrated by their works. But works do not save.

here you go again, the majority supported faith.

Jesus says you know them by their fruit.

If you don't have work, you don't have fruit.

Fruitless faith is not going to save you.

Your theology is so messed up.

@Arial is right about your faith, salad faith.

 

[Pipiripi]

Who here is not spiritual? People who disagree with you?

I don't need nobody to be agree with me, but agree with Jesus and the writers in the Bible.
Those that cannot see what is in heaven, and live like Jesus teach us to live. Go read John 17 completely again.

Who is doing that? Why do you think they know they are in error?

I don't think!! They cannot answered my questions. And the answer is in the Bible. Galatians 1:1-10.

If people have faith, it would be demonstrated by their works. But works do not save.

Yes, but the most here speaking about no works they are save only by faith. Are you one of them?

I'm a Christian.

True Christians is this people Revelation 12:17 and Revelation 14:12-13. And go read John 17 again, and see if you are in this prayer of my Jesus Christ!!

What is the OP teaching system?

Read the Title and if you will ask questions, then open a question asking debate.

 

[shroom]

here you go again, the majority supported faith.

Jesus says you know them by their fruit.

If you don't have work, you don't have fruit.

Fruitless faith is not going to save you.

Your theology is so messed up.

@Arial is right about your faith, salad faith.

Hi, meshak! You're right on cue.

 

[Arial]

exactly WHAT has Unitarianism got to do will "free will"?

I was being sarcastic and the person, Shroom, who I addressed it to knew that. I did what I did because of all the times he, and others, respond as rebuttal to what I say with "That's Calvinism." Nothing more than those two words, as though that amounts to a rebuttal. What is amusing is those who jumped on my making that statement to Shroom but never ever have a single thing to say when someone uses "That's Calvinism!" as their sole argument. It shows people don't know how to think, debate, or discuss, and that everything they do say is prejudiced, not for something but against it. And that they don't give a hoot about what anyone else thinks or says or why they do so. Yet, here they are, on a forum, running their mouths.

The Bible is very clear, that sinners must CHOOSE, between the Lord and the devil

This is clear in both the Old and New Testaments

"CHOOSE you this day whom ye will serve..." (Joshua 24:15)

Learn the distinction between covenants. What they are, what they are for, what they say, what they do, why they exist and for what purpose each serves.

"Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And YOU ARE UNWILLING to come to me, that ye might have life" (John 5:39-40)

Right. They were unwilling. What's your point?

Predestination to salvation is a "reformed" heresy!

That has no meaning and carries no weight unless you can prove it. And you would have to prove it without changing the clear meaning of scriptures on the subject, take into consideration who God says He is and what He says He does, what He says about humanity and our condition, as well as simply take a look around at the world you live in and the people in it.

 

[ICHTHUS]

I was being sarcastic and the person, Shroom, who I addressed it to knew that. I did what I did because of all the times he, and others, respond as rebuttal to what I say with "That's Calvinism." Nothing more than those two words, as though that amounts to a rebuttal. What is amusing is those who jumped on my making that statement to Shroom but never ever have a single thing to say when someone uses "That's Calvinism!" as their sole argument. It shows people don't know how to think, debate, or discuss, and that everything they do say is prejudiced, not for something but against it. And that they don't give a hoot about what anyone else thinks or says or why they do so. Yet, here they are, on a forum, running their mouths.

Learn the distinction between covenants. What they are, what they are for, what they say, what they do, why they exist and for what purpose each serves.

Right. They were unwilling. What's your point?

That has no meaning and carries no weight unless you can prove it. And you would have to prove it without changing the clear meaning of scriptures on the subject, take into consideration who God says He is and what He says He does, what He says about humanity and our condition, as well as simply take a look around at the world you live in and the people in it.

John 3:16-18 is the clearest presentation of the Gospel Message. In this small passage it is very clear, that

1. God loves the entire human race with a Saving Love
2. That He gave His One and Only Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, to die for the sins of the entire human race, with ZERO exceptions
3. That those from the entire human race, who actually believe and repent of their sins (which is what BELIEVE means), will not perish but have eternal life
4. Those who reject this Gospel for their salvation, will be damned and cast into eternal punishment
5. Either to BELIEVE, or NOT TO BELIEVE, requires that the sinner has the God-given ability to CHOOSE how they respond to the inward Call by God the Holy Spirit, which is what Jesus calls "convict" in John 16:8-10

This is the Bible's Way of how a lost sinner is saved and Justified before God.

The Reformed/Calvinistic way, which includes a "limited" death of Jesus Christ, is downright blasphemy, and an insult to the Salvation Work of Jesus Christ, and has ZERO authority in the Holy Bible!

 

[Arial]

John 3:16-18 is the clearest presentation of the Gospel Message. In this small passage it is very clear, that

1. God loves the entire human race with a Saving Love
2. That He gave His One and Only Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, to die for the sins of the entire human race, with ZERO exceptions
3. That those from the entire human race, who actually believe and repent of their sins (which is what BELIEVE means), will not perish but have eternal life
4. Those who reject this Gospel for their salvation, will be damned and cast into eternal punishment
5. Either to BELIEVE, or NOT TO BELIEVE, requires that the sinner has the God-given ability to CHOOSE how they respond to the inward Call by God the Holy Spirit, which is what Jesus calls "convict" in John 16:8-10

This is the Bible's Way of how a lost sinner is saved and Justified before God.

The Reformed/Calvinistic way, which includes a "limited" death of Jesus Christ, is downright blasphemy, and an insult to the Salvation Work of Jesus Christ, and has ZERO authority in the Holy Bible!

1. It does not say He loved everyone with a saving love. It says He loved the world---His creation and all that is in it. Redemptive love is found only in Christ, as the scriptures declare. Not in Christ through faith, not redeemed.
2.It dos not say "for the entire human race." It says whoever believes in Him shall not perish. So world must not be saying every individual in the world.
3. Yes, those from the entire human race, not each human in the human race. Now you are getting what world means. And it says some will believe. Nothing about how they come to believe, just that some will believe.
4.Yes. Reject means not believe. Nothing about making a choice. According to scripture no one seeks God, all have sinned and fall short of His glory and are at enmity with Him. That is an all that includes every single person. We all start on the same playing field.
5.But given the above in (4) the fact that we have the faculty of choice does not mean we will choose God, but rather that we won't, because we don't want to. And what do you suppose the inward call of God is but the very thing Jesus had just spoken of with Nicodemus? What is it but the regenerating of a person to be reborn in Christ, born from above, children born not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man but of God, John 1:13? And what they could not believe before, they now can and do believe. Of course then they will choose Him.

The Reformed, Calvinistic way does not include a "limited" death, but limited atonement, its meaning better expressed by "definite" atonement. Meaning Jesus knew who He was dying for, whose sins He was paying for with that vicarious death, and was 100% successful in His mission. There is something very contradictory about saying that He actually paid for the sin of every individual ever and at the same time saying most people pay for their own sins in addition to Jesus having paid for them. The teachings of this theology are backed up at every point within the Bible with narry a contradiction anywhere. Irregardless of what your opinion of that is. A person must take great leaps of arrogance to say that the reformers were not educated enough, sincere enough, did above and beyond any due dilligance that you or I would or could do, to make sure they kept the scriptures consistent throughout.

But anyone who wants to believe that they came to Christ of their own free will, that is no skin off my teeth, nor do I hold it against them, or think they are not saved because of this view. Unlike the vehemence that is frequently held towards the brethren who do think the work of their salvation was done by the great grace and mercy of God, and that they contributed nothing to it. Believing is all that is important in the matter.

 

[ICHTHUS]

1. It does not say He loved everyone with a saving love. It says He loved the world---His creation and all that is in it. Redemptive love is found only in Christ, as the scriptures declare. Not in Christ through faith, not redeemed.
2.It dos not say "for the entire human race." It says whoever believes in Him shall not perish. So world must not be saying every individual in the world.
3. Yes, those from the entire human race, not each human in the human race. Now you are getting what world means. And it says some will believe. Nothing about how they come to believe, just that some will believe.
4.Yes. Reject means not believe. Nothing about making a choice. According to scripture no one seeks God, all have sinned and fall short of His glory and are at enmity with Him. That is an all that includes every single person. We all start on the same playing field.
5.But given the above in (4) the fact that we have the faculty of choice does not mean we will choose God, but rather that we won't, because we don't want to. And what do you suppose the inward call of God is but the very thing Jesus had just spoken of with Nicodemus? What is it but the regenerating of a person to be reborn in Christ, born from above, children born not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man but of God, John 1:13? And what they could not believe before, they now can and do believe. Of course then they will choose Him.

The Reformed, Calvinistic way does not include a "limited" death, but limited atonement, its meaning better expressed by "definite" atonement. Meaning Jesus knew who He was dying for, whose sins He was paying for with that vicarious death, and was 100% successful in His mission. There is something very contradictory about saying that He actually paid for the sin of every individual ever and at the same time saying most people pay for their own sins in addition to Jesus having paid for them. The teachings of this theology are backed up at every point within the Bible with narry a contradiction anywhere. Irregardless of what your opinion of that is. A person must take great leaps of arrogance to say that the reformers were not educated enough, sincere enough, did above and beyond any due dilligance that you or I would or could do, to make sure they kept the scriptures consistent throughout.

But anyone who wants to believe that they came to Christ of their own free will, that is no skin off my teeth, nor do I hold it against them, or think they are not saved because of this view. Unlike the vehemence that is frequently held towards the brethren who do think the work of their salvation was done by the great grace and mercy of God, and that they contributed nothing to it. Believing is all that is important in the matter.

The context of John 3:16-18, is about salvation, which can only mean that God's Love here is Saving Love. The great Love that God has as described in this context, is universal, for everyone without exception, to use the very words of John Calvin on verse 16.

Only those who have a theological bias, like the so called "reformed", will try to get another meaning, as they try with the Greek "kosmos" used in this context, which is forced to mean, "God's elect", which even Calvin disagrees with!

 

[Arial]

The context of John 3:16-18, is about salvation, which can only mean that God's Love here is Saving Love. The great Love that God has as described in this context, is universal, for everyone without exception, to use the very words of John Calvin on verse 16.

Only those who have a theological bias, like the so called "reformed", will try to get another meaning, as they try with the Greek "kosmos" used in this context, which is forced to mean, "God's elect", which even Calvin disagrees with!

You jump to unjustifiable conclusions but I am not going to argue with you about it.