A
Arial
Guest
I get that method of Shroom supporting his POV often, as well as from other Calvin haters, which is why I said it back to him the way I did. Join his club.
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M
MatthewG
Guest
I
ICHTHUS
Guest
Romans 1:26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged natural relations for that which is contrary to nature,27 and likewise the men, too, abandoned natural relations [a]with women and burned in their desire toward one another, males with males committing [b]shameful acts and receiving in [c]their own persons the due penalty of their error.
28 And just as they did not see fit [d]to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a depraved mind, to do those things that are not proper, 29 people having been filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, and evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, and malice; they are gossips,
read the whole context, before Paul says, "for this reason". the answer is right there in the passage!
I
ICHTHUS
Guest
Your unitarian open theism is showing.
exactly WHAT has Unitarianism got to do will "free will"?
The Bible is very clear, that sinners must CHOOSE, between the Lord and the devil
This is clear in both the Old and New Testaments
"CHOOSE you this day whom ye will serve..." (Joshua 24:15)
"Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And YOU ARE UNWILLING to come to me, that ye might have life" (John 5:39-40)
Predestination to salvation is a "reformed" heresy!
M
MatthewG
Guest
Scripture is full of stories when God gives over people due to their rebellion of Him.
But it is also full of stories when God reaches out to and blesses the same ones He gave over earlier.
Good points.
M
MatthewG
Guest
Your Calvinist spirit is showing....
It's not good to pick and poke and prod people I do not believe.
God has given people free will to choose.
Some people get upset that I believe Jesus Christ has returned, and has defeated and taken care of Sin, death, Satan and his Angels, and even done away with Hell.
However though people get upset when speaking about these things - God doesn't condemn me for having faith as Jesus Christ as the head, and victor over all things now today.
M
MatthewG
Guest
As noted earlier, we have the gift of 'free will' in so far as 'God' gives us liberty to choose good or evil, or whatever we can potentially or possibly DO. One can tend the divine or good elements within him and allow them liberty or the evil more bestial selfish side of his soul, as Paul further elaborates,....whatever nature or tendency one sows towards, the fruit of that he shall reap, for such is a universal law.
All evil, disintegration, 'sin', suffering' degradation is obviously allowed by 'God' in the imprefect and unevolved realms of conditional existence,...this world is one of 'duality', 'polarity', 'multiplicity', 'imperfection', 'fragmentation'......the good news is that we can learn, grow, evolve and be 'saved' from the effects of 'sin' and 'death', by receiving the GIFT of immortality via 'Christ'.
Iniquity fully ripened and culminated leads to 'death', 'disintegration'.....so obedience to divine love, law, will....leads to life, wholeness, perfection, progress. - the human 'mind' can attend whatever influence is available to it and foster that to whatever end result it may produce,...again all within the range of freedom of choice. The gift of 'free will' then ought to be highly prized for its positive potential towards good and one's eternal survival and JOY, but we can also choose the path of 'sin' which leads to ruin.
In this context freedom of choice is available to all; Deity is no respector of persons in that all have to them the availability to choose, and have the consequences of such CHOICE, for the Father gives liberally to all, whether good or evil, but those who choose divine love and forgiveness, these alone enter into the perfection of such a state (heaven) and can thereby be 'saved' from any 'state' or 'condition' that is not love.
Forgive and YOU will be forgiven, by the natural consequence of the action, and the law works its own activity and results. As you choose love and life, and to FORGIVE others and yourself, you are forgiven and free to abide in the Father's love. Love is its own law, and those wholly abiding in love are a law unto themselves, for this fundamental law of being, fulfills all other relations.
Beyond a debate on what elements or factors cause a person to choose good or evil, 'God' obviously has allowed the potential and possibitlies of BOTH good and evil to PLAY out in the field of human experience. 'God' by nature will continue to allow any mind a way back home to its source which is undivided and whole, back to peace and sanity.....as long as such a soul can still change his mind (repent) and choose a better way. Conversation and discourse between 'God' and 'soul' always exists, as long as love allows for such.
--------------o
There is a bible verse that states for one to ponder the path of their feet. That takes time to make a choice to do with reflecting the memories of ones own choices and was that choice worth it or not.
S
shroom
Guest
Who here is not spiritual? People who disagree with you?Those that are not spiritual.
Who is doing that? Why do you think they know they are in error?Those that are not reading the Bible the whole context, but plucking verses here and there and building their own imagination stories.
If people have faith, it would be demonstrated by their works. But works do not save.Those that have faith but not work. They pretending that only through faith they are saved, but ignoring what James has said about faith without work.
I'm a Christian.Now! Are you in this group of people here? In which one are you?
What is the OP teaching system?And please don't start any conversation here about this issue.
Here is the OP teaching system.
M
MatthewG
Guest
It tells you in verses 18-25.
In that day in age the Wrath of God was going to come upon those who had the Son of God put to death, so that makes sense here thank you.
Romans 1:18-25
Young's Literal Translation
18 for revealed is the wrath of God from heaven upon all impiety and unrighteousness of men, holding down the truth in unrighteousness.19 Because that which is known of God is manifest among them, for God did manifest [it] to them,
20 for the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world, by the things made being understood, are plainly seen, both His eternal power and Godhead -- to their being inexcusable;
21 because, having known God they did not glorify [Him] as God, nor gave thanks, but were made vain in their reasonings, and their unintelligent heart was darkened,
22 professing to be wise, they were made fools,
23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of fowls, and of quadrupeds, and of reptiles.
24 Wherefore also God did give them up, in the desires of their hearts, to uncleanness, to dishonour their bodies among themselves;
25 who did change the truth of God into a falsehood, and did honour and serve the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed to the ages. Amen.
S
shroom
Guest
He does wish you would come to a knowledge of the truth, though. He wants that for all of us.God doesn't condemn me
I
ICHTHUS
Guest
Some people get upset that I believe Jesus Christ has returned,
WHERE is He then???
WHY is He is hiding???
WHEN was Matthew 25:31 fulfilled???
When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, He will sit on His glorious throne
It is not "some people", but the Holy Bible, the Infallible Word of God, that is against you on this!
M
MatthewG
Guest
I believe that Jesus Christ is on the Throne with God as the Lord God Almighty, personally but I disagree with the notion that the whole bible is against me when it's pretty clear through it He was meant to return for that bride, which the Apostles governed over until the time of the end. Where the Wrath of God was poured out on the nation of Israel. Which ended material religion, and established the new covenant through Jesus Christ, where God writes his laws on the hearts of people who seek him out in faith, now today.
But it's a subjective view, that I pretty much place value in, where others do not, @ICHTHUS.
But it's a subjective view, that I pretty much place value in, where others do not, @ICHTHUS.