"Try The Spirits Whether They Are Of God" 1 John 4:1.

[Mr E]

Then how do you explain the Book Of Life?

It’s a ledger. Like a Hotel Register listing everyone who is staying.

 

[robert pate]

Then how do you explain the Book Of Life?

The Book of Life contains the names of those that are spiritually in heaven, Colossians 3:3. Names are being added to it every day, Acts 2:41. On the day of Pentecost when 8,000 were saved the Lord had to bring in an extra shift of angels to record all of the names.

 

[Bladerunner]

oops, thank you for bringing that to my attention, It was Robert pate who said that I quoted in Blue. I apologise. Its getting to late for me to continue. I see where you did ask the question about ROm 3....

Hopefully this is correct although at this point, I cannot guarantee it.. "

"Are you sure? Do you add or take anything away from this part of Romans 3?
But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith."

Mr. E. If you will allow me to me to answer this tomorrow evening to prevent any further major mistakes to happen. will await your reply.

Again I apologise and will go back and correct the post.

Blade
Mr. E....I have taken the liberty to copy post #123.
"Thank you Blade. I consider you a friend as well.

I don't mean it as any kind of 'trick question.' It's an honest question that was prompted by what you said regarding not adding or taking anything away from scripture. I am wondering how you handle Romans 3, within the framework you stipulated. Here's the link to what you said again, with my question."

I had said to Robert Pate in a previous post of which you responded with the above. "Robert, there are many scriptures where God's elect are depicted to represent the individual. Certainly, all the members of the Church (His Body) are the elect for they have received justification."

also a later comment by myself stated: "there is no election with a purpose as God chose Prophets, Patriarchs and apostles........"which you also replied to in the Post # 123

Now that we have what you and I both said, my comments are as follows:

in 1 Pe 1:2, Peter is telling those who are listening that they have been elected. Here is one of the scriptures where individuals are elected not a group as Robert Pate would have us to believe (i.e. the CHurch (body of CHrist)

"Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied. "

It also states that God has foreknowedge as part of His omniessence chooses who He wants according to His authority and sovereignty.
Peter even states in subsequent verses that without sanctification and obedience within a person's actions, words, etc. there is election is doubtful at best.

Romans 3 is given in three parts,,,1. Judgement of Mankind (on trial so to speak), 2. God's gift of Righteousness and 3. How we are to become reconciled to GOD.

Mr. E.... if you have a specific question, I will try my best to answer it.....

Blade

 

[Bladerunner]

James was a Judaizer. A Judaizer is someone that believes in Jesus, but also believes that you must keep the law of Moses. The book of James was directed to law keeping Jews, James 1:1. Not to Gentile Christians. John Calvin did not possess the Holy Spirit. He was a murderer and a tyrant. Google, "The Recorded Atrocities of John Calvin". If you believe that John Calvin was indwelt by the Holy Spirit, then you must also believe that God is the devil.

James was the half brother of Jesus and the brother of Jude. Until Jesus did resurrection special in 1 Cor 15:7 did James become a believer. It is widely spread that James was a judaizersr but this was before his change of fortune.

However, Many people including you consider James a book that is weak and unhelpful for Christians...Here is a excerpt by Barclay and gives a little more explanation.

"Since this was written for the body of Christians as it existed at that time, this is also a letter for us today. Some think the book of James isn’t important for Christians, and some quote Martin Luther’s famous estimation of James as “a letter full of straw.” But Luther’s remark should be understood in its context. He was sometimes frustrated because those who wanted to promote salvation by works quoted certain verses from James against him. His intention was to observe that there was little or nothing in James that preached the gospel of justification by faith alone. In another place Luther wrote regarding James, “I think highly of the epistle of James, and regard it as valuable... It does not expound human doctrines, but lays much emphasis on God’s law.” (Cited in Barclay)

Yet, Luther knew exactly what James was teaching as told in this excerpt of MOO:

"Martin Luther knew and taught exactly what the book of James teaches. The following is from his preface to Romans regarding saving faith: O it is a living, busy active mighty thing, this faith. It is impossible for it not to be doing good things incessantly. It does not ask whether good works are to be done, but before the question is asked, it has already done this, and is constantly doing them. Whoever does not do such works, however, is an unbeliever. He gropes and looks around for faith and good works, but knows neither what faith is nor what good works are. Yet he talks and talks, with many words, about faith and good works. (Cited in Moo) "

I think your hatred for Predestination and Calvin (who popularized it) had shaded your sight...unfortunate as it is, you are blinded to the truth although you can hear it as it is written.

Blade

 

[Bladerunner]

Are you attempting to cover yourself with Calvinism?

ah, another hater of Calvin...As I stated, the meaning of Religion is the attempt of man to cover himself with GOD! simple as that.

The Christian church was fore-ordained, not individual Christians.

Yes, the church was preordained as was the predestination of the elected individuals..Rem, Not all true believers at the end are considered to be part of the Church or the Bride of Christ.

You have made this false accusation several times now. Not all are going to be saved, only people who have become Christian.

And out of all those Christians, on the true believers (true Christians) will be saved.........agree with you

No it isn't. n

I said this to get your response above:"It is GOD's fault that mankind is in the throes of sin anyway... " Of course my statement was a referal to the many who use this excuse to hide their sins within their own minds. Shroom, I agree with you , God is not responsible for our sins.

Yes, your words certainly are confusing.

The whole word of God does not teach that individual people are predestined to salvation.

Well I guess we should remove all the 'elect", Rom 8:29-30 and many other verses that state that GOD elected those who HE chose to Salvation.

Blade

 

[Bladerunner]

Predestination of individual people does not exist, it is a false theology/gospel. God wants everyone to be saved (1 Tim 2:4), He is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance (2 Pet 3:9).

and having foreknowledge of of everything, He chooses who He wants to serve Him...You still want your your your ability to reject or accept Him..You have no need of His gifts of everything that is needed for Justification had rather do it your way...good luck....I am sure He will be happy you are saying all these things about what He did not say, yet they are still written down,,.

Blade

 

[shroom]

and having foreknowledge of of everything

Debatable.

He chooses who He wants to serve Him...

God wants people who WANT to serve Him to serve Him

You still want your your your ability to reject or accept Him..

Every man makes that choice, Blade. You made it, even though you think God did it to you.

You have no need of His gifts of everything that is needed for Justification

That's false.

had rather do it your way...good luck....

Unlike with Calvinism, luck is not needed.

I am sure He will be happy you are saying all these things about what He did not say, yet they are still written down,,.

I do my best to speak the word of God accurately. I know you think you do the same. We'll find out which, if either of us, was right.

But until that time, I will speak against Calvinism because it's not true and it makes God untrustworthy and unlovable.

 

[shroom]

ah, another hater of Calvin...

More like a lover of the truth..

As I stated, the meaning of Religion is the attempt of man to cover himself with GOD! simple as that.

So why did you call yourself a Calvinist?

Yes, the church was preordained as was the predestination of the elected individuals..

No, individuals were not preordained. God wants everyone to be saved.

Rem, Not all true believers at the end are considered to be part of the Church or the Bride of Christ.

Of course they are. Anyone who is born again is a member of the body of Christ, and shall absolutely be saved.

And out of all those Christians, on the true believers (true Christians) will be saved.........agree with you

If a person is born again of holy spirit, he is a true Christian.

I said this to get your response above:"It is GOD's fault that mankind is in the throes of sin anyway... " Of course my statement was a referal to the many who use this excuse to hide their sins within their own minds. Shroom, I agree with you , God is not responsible for our sins.

Why do you continue to insist that people who believe in free will, people who believe what the Bible says, that God wants all men to be saved, also believe that everyone will be saved? You have made that false claim several times, and continue to make it.

Well I guess we should remove all the 'elect", Rom 8:29-30 and many other verses that state that GOD elected those who HE chose to Salvation.

Blade

The elect are people who decided to believe the Gospel. God does not determine who will be saved. He wants everyone to be saved. If God is in control, if He determines who will be saved, then all preaching and prayer is pointless, and we're nothing but robots programmed by God.

 

[Bladerunner]

Debatable.

Oh, so your GOD is not all powerful, I guess your God is not the only GOD around either?

God wants people who WANT to serve Him to serve Him

All those He has elected will certainly serve Him without fail. without changing, removing adding or ignoring His words

Every man makes that choice, Blade. You made it, even though you think God did it to you.

Again you fail to accept that GOD did it all. He Called me, He give me a measure faith needed for justification and He gave me that justification and the Holy Spirit. and on and on and on.......

That's false.

What IS FALSE? You have no need for His gifts or is it you do not need His gifts until you decide to accept or reject them.

Unlike with Calvinism, luck is not needed.

there is that hatred for Calvin and His teachings of God's Holy Word.

I do my best to speak the word of God accurately. I know you think you do the same. We'll find out which, if either of us, was right.

ok

But until that time, I will speak against Calvinism because it's not true and it makes God untrustworthy and unlovable.

Oh, Calvin now is teaching that GOD is not trustworthy and should not be loved.? Wow,,,,one I had not heard yet...

Blade

More like a lover of the truth..

You truth, certainly not about the truth of GOD;s WORD unless the removal, changing, adding or ignoring of His WORD is the truth?

So why did you call yourself a Calvinist?

I believe in most of what He teaches. His TULIP is not really all it should be but for the most part it is accurate.

No, individuals were not preordained. God wants everyone to be saved.

Yes, God wanted everyone to be saved...but that would not be the case unless He calls each one of us, changing our minds and hearts so that we might seek and accept Jesus Christ. THrough listening to His WORD, we hear the truth and through faith we are saved....No, not all of us by a long shot. but many of us will NOT recieve what we deserve but receive what we don't deserve and that is Mercy in the form of Justification.

Of course they are. Anyone who is born again is a member of the body of Christ, and shall absolutely be saved. Not all Christians are born again..there are many that actually do not believe.

If a person is born again of holy spirit, he is a true Christian. aH, WOULD THE HOLY SPIRT allow someones to ignore His WORD! really.....

Why do you continue to insist that people who believe in free will, people who believe what the Bible says, that God wants all men to be saved, also believe that everyone will be saved? You have made that false claim several times, and continue to make it.

Because you keep making it about yourself.and your so called Free=Will. it is up to you not GOD! Really?

The elect are people who decided to believe the Gospel. God does not determine who will be saved. He wants everyone to be saved. If God is in control, if He determines who will be saved, then all preaching and prayer is pointless, and we're nothing but robots programmed by God.

wait a minute,,,I thought you said God did not elect people..Now you are saying those who through their free will chose GOD have elected themselves. a little arrogant don't ou thin,k?

 

[Arial]

But until that time, I will speak against Calvinism because it's not true and it makes God untrustworthy and unlovable.

Then you speak against the children of God. Last I checked we weren't to do that, and as you consider yourself a Christian (while also denying many of the doctrines of Christianity) should you not do that? What is it that scripture says causes strife within the body of Christ but envy and self seeking? You don't know if the teaching of Calvin is true. You don't like it, you don't understand it, so you say it isn't true. That is all it is. You say it makes God untrustworthy and unlovable because that is only way you can see it if God is different than you want Him to be. None of your false interpretations of your proof texts hold any water, because those interpretations have been frequently and by many, debunked. You merely reinterpret everything in such a way as to say there are no contradictions in scripture to your beliefs. To do so you truly do have to ignore quite a lot of the Bible and God. I suspect that your reason for your hatred of predestination to salvation, as is the case with many, is fear. A fear of not being in control of your salvation yourself. You find yourself easier to trust than it is to trust God.

You would do well to pay attention to this, whether you ever agree with Calvinism or not. It makes no difference to salvation. Faith is faith no matter how one thinks they arrived at that faith. But you go too far, and say Calvinism isn't true and make "I don't like it," into casting judgement on who God is. And you would do well to pay attention to what the Bible says about those Christian doctrines that you reject, including your man centered view of God's sovereignty. You have a few on here who have patiently and impatiently tried to give you an understanding of them---using the Bible itself, but you absolutely shut your ears. Perhaps God is extending a hand to you out of His love, using man as a means, and you are saying, I will do it myself, thank you very much. But this human relationship we have with God is always Him down to us, not us up to Him. He needs nothing from us.

 

[Legroom]

Why should we try the Spirits? "Because many false prophets are gone out into the world" 1 John 4:1. I am a Spirit inspector. I can tell within a matter of minutes whether the Spirit is of God or whether it is not. How do I do this? I try everything in the light of the "Historical Gospel of Jesus Christ". In the Gospel Jesus has ALREADY justified the ungodly, Romans 4:5. In the Gospel Jesus has ALREADY reconciled us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. In the Gospel Christians are ALREADY perfect and complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10. Any Spirit that opposes the Gospel of Jesus Christ is not of God and is more than likely the Spirit of anti-Christ. In the Gospel salvation is always by grace through faith, Ephesians 2:8. Any Spirit that says salvation is by some other means than by grace through faith is the Spirit of anti-Christ.

When the Gospel came into the world on the day of Pentecost it was accompanied by the Holy Spirit, Acts 2:17. Where there is the Gospel the Holy Spirit is there to convict people of their need for Christ. "Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God" Romans 10:17. On the day of Pentecost they heard, they believed and they were born again by the word of God, which was the Gospel. Nothing has changed in the last two thousand years. People are still saved by hearing and believing the Gospel. The false prophets teach a false Gospel that is not of the Holy Spirit. Calvinism is not of the Holy Spirit, nor is Catholicism of the Holy Spirit. If it is not of the Gospel, it is the Spirit of anti-Christ. Beware of false prophets.

Being on the lookout for false prophets implies that we should look for true ones. Urantia Book Illustrated Online

 

[robert pate]

Being on the lookout for false prophets implies that we should look for true ones. Urantia Book Illustrated Online

All that God wants us to know about Jesus Christ and how to be saved will be found in the Bible.