The Lamb and the Scroll

[patrick jane]

The Lamb and the Scroll
Revelation 5

Revelation 4 just got through describing the throne room (so to speak) of YHWH which will have a lot of the same symbolism in this chapter.
Revelation 5 starts in that same throne room.

Revelation 5 ESV​

(1) Then I saw in the right hand of him who was seated on the throne a scroll written within and on the back, sealed with seven seals.​

(2) And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming with a loud voice, “Who is worthy to open the scroll and break its seals?”​

(3) And no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll or to look into it,​

(4) and I began to weep loudly because no one was found worthy to open the scroll or to look into it.​

No one in heaven or on earth or under the earth (that's pretty much all of creation) was worthy to open the scroll.
And that made John weep loudly.

Why would that make him weep?
Why would seeing that imagery of a scroll with 7 seals not being opened make him weep?
It seems to indicate that John already knew what was in the scrolls and knew they desperately needed to be opened.
How did he already know?
Is there something in the OT scriptures that imagery brought to his mind and made him weep?
Well anyway, he's real sad because no one in all of creation was worthy to open it.
Bummer.

But wait !!!! ......

Revelation 5 ESV​

(5) And one of the elders said to me, “Weep no more; behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has conquered, so that he can open the scroll and its seven seals.”​

Whew!
Thank goodness for that!

But, but, but, ....... where did that lamb come from since no one in all of creation was worthy?
From outside of creation?
Hmmm.

Sissy, I just remember the first time I read this and my heart was sinking because not one was worthy. Then Jesus Christ is worthy, praise God. What an amazing part of the Bible.

 

[Sissy]

The scroll written on both sides

Revelation 5 ESV
(1) Then I saw in the right hand of him who was seated on the throne a scroll written within and on the back, sealed with seven seals.




There's a couple of other places that scriptures reveals something written on both sides, and both were directly from YHWH.

Exodus 32:15 ESV​

(15) Then Moses turned and went down from the mountain with the two tablets of the testimony in his hand, tablets that were written on both sides; on the front and on the back they were written.​

​

​

Directly for YHWH, but not a scroll.


This next one is a scroll directly from YHWH.

​

​

​

Ezekiel 2:9 - Ezekiel 3:1 ESV​

(9) And when I looked, behold, a hand was stretched out to me, and behold, a scroll of a book was in it.​

(10) And he spread it before me. And it had writing on the front and on the back, and there were written on it words of lamentation and mourning and woe.​

Ezekiel 3 ESV​

(1) And he said to me, “Son of man, eat whatever you find here. Eat this scroll, and go, speak to the house of Israel.”​

Notice in verse 3:1 ------ "Eat this scroll".


We also see this in Revelation about a scroll that has been opened.

Revelation 10 ESV
(8) Then the voice that I had heard from heaven spoke to me again, saying, “Go, take the scroll that is open in the hand of the angel who is standing on the sea and on the land.”
(9) So I went to the angel and told him to give me the little scroll. And he said to me, “Take and eat it; it will make your stomach bitter, but in your mouth it will be sweet as honey.”
(10) And I took the little scroll from the hand of the angel and ate it. It was sweet as honey in my mouth, but when I had eaten it my stomach was made bitter.

 

[Bladerunner]

And who did Boaz marry and why? Ahhh. The kinsman redeemer, who redeemed a woman not of Israel, a Gentile, the widow of a man of the tribe of Judah.

Sometimes the awe of it all overwhelms me!

sounds like you know your bible?

Thanks

Blade

 

[Arial]

sounds like you know your bible?

Thanks

Blade

I should be by now . I have been through it cover to cover many times over and in different translations. Am in the process again in NKJV. When I do this I do OT and NT at the same time, and Psalms from beginning to end and back again. There is always more to see and learn as the Holy Spirit shines a light on the living word. The unity and all encompassing nature of God's plan of redemption that we see in the OT, and working within history, is astounding. The shadow of the Redeemer is in every aspect of it. There is scarcely a name, a place, a number, a time, an event that does not contain His coming in some way. It is all working towards "Unto us a child is born-----" and "It is finished," and finally to "Behold, I make all things new," "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End." This unity and unfaltering consistency tells us so much about our Father, and it absolutely tells us Jesus is none other than the Almighty God incarnate, our Kinsman Redeemer.

 

[Arial]

But, but, but, ....... where did that lamb come from since no one in all of creation was worthy?
From outside of creation?
Hmmm.

The very title Lamb of God is saturated with the uncreated deity of the Lamb. I suggest, especially to the Jews who were the first to hear this name applied to Jesus, that they knew exactly what John was saying. They were still under the ceremonial law with its sacrificial system. All the lambs sacrificed (a thing I hate, and yet another thing I thank Jesus for doing away with once for all) were literal lambs, taken from the flock by the hands of men and sacrificed by the hands of men, as commanded by God. This Lamb of God was not one of those. This Lamb of God could be none other than God Himself, coming to us, as a Lamb, to remove our sins from our account rather than temporarily pass over them. I am convinced that the Jews of Jesus' time understood the implications of "Lamb of God", irregardless of whether or not they believed Jesus was that Lamb. And there, tracking back to a different thread is another suggestion that the Jews had a concept of a plurality within the One God.

 

[Bladerunner]

The very title Lamb of God is saturated with the uncreated deity of the Lamb. I suggest, especially to the Jews who were the first to hear this name applied to Jesus, that they knew exactly what John was saying. They were still under the ceremonial law with its sacrificial system. All the lambs sacrificed (a thing I hate, and yet another thing I thank Jesus for doing away with once for all) were literal lambs, taken from the flock by the hands of men and sacrificed by the hands of men, as commanded by God. This Lamb of God was not one of those. This Lamb of God could be none other than God Himself, coming to us, as a Lamb, to remove our sins from our account rather than temporarily pass over them. I am convinced that the Jews of Jesus' time understood the implications of "Lamb of God", irregardless of whether or not they believed Jesus was that Lamb. And there, tracking back to a different thread is another suggestion that the Jews had a concept of a plurality within the One God.

The "Lamb of GOD" is only spoken of in the NT....and hidden in the OT....There is no reason that the people of that time would put two and two together and believe their messiah would be the Lamb of GOD....For when He came, all they wanted was a king, a warrior that would shed them of the Roman Empire...When He did not do this, they Crucified Him and denied him His deity. Even In Isaiah 53, the most beautiful rendition of the Gospel of Jesus Christ in the Bible, they (the pharisees, etc) the leaders of the Temple, the Levi's ...did not know their messiah when they saw Him.

By the same token, my Grand father could not have known in His early years the meaning of 1/4 of the world dying during the coming war on earth (Rev. 6:7-8), a population equivalent to that United States and China today. This could not have happened, with arrows and swords or muskets and cannon balls. Only something akin to Sodom and Gamorrah such as Nuclear weapons that we have today.

Blade

 

[Arial]

There is no reason that the people of that time would put two and two together and believe their messiah would be the Lamb of GOD....

All due respect, I said those John was speaking to would have understood the concept within the"Lamb of God." We know that refers to Messiah, they of course may not have made that connection. Some may have. The Messiah aside, they surely, given the sacrificial system in place, understood that the Lamb of God, presented by John as it was, in the man of Jesus, as being not only from God, but God among us. They may not have believed it, it was simply an announcement, after all. "Here He is, the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world."

 

[Bladerunner]

All due respect, I said those John was speaking to would have understood the concept within the"Lamb of God." We know that refers to Messiah, they of course may not have made that connection. Some may have. The Messiah aside, they surely, given the sacrificial system in place, understood that the Lamb of God, presented by John as it was, in the man of Jesus, as being not only from God, but God among us. They may not have believed it, it was simply an announcement, after all. "Here He is, the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world."

my apologies.....,.You are speaking of the NT and I am speaking of the OT... I agree with you on the NT part,,,,and yes many did know the Messiah would arrive on a specific date at Jerusalem....They Knew but the powers of Israel did not.

Blade

 

[Sissy]

We take the events that follow each seal as being what is written in the scroll.
But why do we do that since the contents of the scroll cannot be read until all 7 seals are removed?
Once all 7 seals were opened we are not given the words written on the scroll.

 

[Bladerunner]

View attachment 130

We take the events that follow each seal as being what is written in the scroll.
But why do we do that since the contents of the scroll cannot be read until all 7 seals are removed?
Once all 7 seals were opened we are not given the words written on the scroll.

This is a wrong representation of a sealed scroll. on a sealed scroll: the Seals were written on the scroll and rolled up from the ending where the beginning would be first to be opened. the Seals are within the scroll just before the topic that is sealed. Opening one does not open another...

Seals....*1*2*3*4*5*6*7 *=seal

Blade

 

[Mr E]

I think you have the only response so far that recognized that the Lamb wasn't created.
But then that would leave the question of why the one sitting on throne had to wait for the Lamb to open it instead of opening it himself.

People forget that John was "in spirit" when he saw all these things. "In spirt" the "men" (people) you see are as you--- spirit. This requires an understanding of dreams, that many people quickly dismiss, but without that understanding they simply miss what is going on. Any time, every time that one is "in spirt" and seeing things as we do in dreams, we see people and describe what we see as if it is a person on earth-- it isn't. It's a spiritual person... call it a spirit, an angel-- I don't care what you want to call it, it isn't a physical person, it's a spiritual reality. It's the spiritual 'you' not the physical you that is experiencing and interacting in this way within the spiritual realm.

In this context when referring to physical people (stay with me) -- the seer will see 'spiritual attributes' of that spiritual realm and having been made a little lower than the angels, "in spirit" we see these things as what could be considered lower life forms. -As animals. This is a principle of all things seen in spirit. It's why scripture describes the spirit as descending from heaven "like a dove" (in bodily form) upon Jesus at the river Jordan (descending). It's why the Christ is 'the lamb' and why the spirit of the antichrist is 'a beast' or 'a dragon' and why the deceiver is depicted as 'a snake or a serpent" -scripture is consistent... Eagles, Lions, Bears, oh my! These are attributes, spiritual entities layered upon physical people.

The seals are like "do not open before Christmas" tags. Like book release dates, you had to wait to open until the appointed time. "The Lamb," an attribute of that one upon the throne had to accomplish certain things on earth, in the physical person of Jesus in order to open those seals and set things in motion. Chief among those things, the Lamb had to be proven worthy at the cost of his own life, a sacrifice- in order to open those seals.

 

[Sissy]

Did John see a lamb in his vision or did he see Christ and described Him with the words his audience of believers would readily recognize?