Open Theism

[Arial]

But in relationship to mankind - seeing the wickedness of man which was great in the earth - Yes, he was sorry that he had made man upon the earth, and it hurt Him that man had rebelled against Him.

So you think God was surprised at the wickedness of man. That it was an unforeseen circumstance?

I believe God answered his prayer to show us that we do matter to him, that we can and should come to him in prayer - He will hear and answer appropriately. (the prayer of a righteous man avails much) Prayer matters and prayer does change things. If God does not react/respond to human choices and actions - why pray at all? BTW - love your play on words "God does not react to human choices and actions - He responds to them" - those two words happen to be synonyms.

Isn't that what I said? But Hezekiah had been sinning after all that God had done. He changed course and God responded in kind. It wasn't God changing His mind. He was going to do one thing for one reason, did the other for a reason. He removed a judgment. Not changed His mind. But really there is no reason to speculate about such things if one knows who God is. It misses the point entirely. It is used to support a heresy contained in Open Theism. That should be a red flag all by itself.

"God does not react to human choices and actions - He responds to them" - those two words happen to be synonyms.

I guess you have never recognized a reactive person when you came across one, or had experience with a reactive dog.
There are any number of uses to most words. So in this case, they would be used in the way I am using them in the context I use them.
Reactive: acting in response to a situation rather that creating or controlling it. Reacting to a situation.
Responsive: answering to a situation in the way necessary.

God does not go bring about His plans by reacting to whatever humans may do----which when you think about it is no plan at all. He responds to the choices we make according to His own plan.

When God is said NOT to "change His mind" - it is said in relation to Him being God vs. being a man who makes promises then does not keep them.

Most of us already know He is not a man. It is saying more than that. But still, it is missing the point and focusing on something that changes nothing that God has already said about Himself, and shown of Himself. Open Theists only do so in order to answer the backlash Open Theism meets from Biblical Christianity and it doesn't answer it but is a good camouflage, deadly all the same.

 

[shroom]

He [Hezekiah] changed course and God responded in kind. It wasn't God changing His mind.

lol

 

[Arial]

Do you? You have... You only believe the ones that say God does not change His mind.

I showed you I did. I showed my work. I believe all of them, I just make sure I don't believe them in contradictory ways

Why bother praying? God is sovereign, right? It doesn't matter whether you pray or not, God knows everything and He's going to do what He determined He would do eons ago.

God governs the world primarily through means. In most cases men. And the prayers of men. See how Daniel prayed when he saw that the seventy years were nearly complete. He prayed God's promise right back to Him, God responds. Look how Jesus prayed in John 17 and other places. Praying the promises of God right back to Him. Look how David prayed. According to who God is, often appealing to His mercy and loving kindness. We do not pray to manipulate God. We pray to honor Him as our creator and only help.They all prayed this way knowing that God already knows what they are going to pray. Prayer is for our comfort and benefit, not His. But if you need another reason---because He told us to pray.

See Patience's post above. #45 The situation matters.

This is in response to the last one third of a sentence. Why do you do that? Anyway, I read the post. I saw nothing in it that indicated that speculating about whether God changes His mind because of the wording of a couple of scriptures is important. It is to Open Theists, but not to the message that God is giving in those passages.

 

[Arial]

lol

Brilliant.

 

[MatthewG]

Moses Informed of Israel's Sin - Exodus 32

7And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves:

8They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

9And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:

10Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.

11And Moses besought the LORD his God, and said, LORD, why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people, which thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand?

12Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against thy people.

13Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever.

14And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.


Another one from Genesis 6 1:7

Corruption on the Earth
(Matthew 24:36–51)

1Now when men began to multiply on the face of the earth and daughters were born to them,

2the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they took as wives whomever they chose.

3So the LORD said, “My Spirit will not contend with man forever,a for he is mortal; his days shall be 120 years.”

4The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and afterward as well—when the sons of God had relations with the daughters of men. And they bore them children who became the mighty men of old, men of renown.

5Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great upon the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was altogether evil all the time.

6And the LORD regretted that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.

7So the LORD said, “I will blot out man, whom I have created, from the face of the earth—every man and beast and crawling creature and bird of the air—for I am grieved that I have made them.”

And the LORD (Yahweh) regretted that He had made man on earth, and He was grieved in His heart.

 

[patience]

So you think God was surprised at the wickedness of man. That it was an unforeseen circumstance?

I believe that when God "saw" (perceived, observed) the wickedness of man was great in the earth and that every intention of his heart was only evil continually, He was sorry and it grieved His heart: as it is written.

Isn't that what I said? But Hezekiah had been sinning after all that God had done. He changed course and God responded in kind. It wasn't God changing His mind. He was going to do one thing for one reason, did the other for a reason. He removed a judgment. Not changed His mind. But really there is no reason to speculate about such things if one knows who God is. It misses the point entirely. It is used to support a heresy contained in Open Theism. That should be a red flag all by itself.

Thus says Yahweh, 'Set your house in order, for you shall die; you shall not recover." [2 Kings 20:1] So, are you saying this was God's judgment against Hezekiah for sinning? That judgment is in place for all mankind since Adam!

"Then Hezekiah turned his face to the wall and prayed" . . . . reminding Yahweh of how he had walked before God in faithfulness and with a whole heart, and had done what was good in God's sight and wept bitterly. (v. 3,4) . . . Thus says Yahweh, the God of David your father: I have heard your prayer; I have seen your tears - I will heal you and add 15 years to your life. And God's adding 15 years to his life, was not reacting/responding to Hezekiah's prayer, only removing the judgment?

God didn't change his mind from "you shall die, you shall not recover" to "I will heal you and add 15 years to your life"? Okey dokey then. . . Who is speculating? It's right there - it is writtten. This interaction with Hezekiah shows God's grace and mercy and that He answers prayer.

I guess you have never recognized a reactive person when you came across one, or had experience with a reactive dog.
There are any number of uses to most words. So in this case, they would be used in the way I am using them in the context I use them.
Reactive: acting in response to a situation rather that creating or controlling it. Reacting to a situation.
Responsive: answering to a situation in the way necessary.

God does not go bring about His plans by reacting to whatever humans may do----which when you think about it is no plan at all. He responds to the choices we make according to His own plan.

Well, I will admit here that I was only looking at the words react and response but . . . .when Hezekiah prayed, did God act in response to the situation? Did He also answer the situation in the way He deemed appropriate? I would say "yes" to both. He heard Hezekiah's prayer and He responded.

Most of us already know He is not a man. It is saying more than that. But still, it is missing the point and focusing on something that changes nothing that God has already said about Himself, and shown of Himself. Open Theists only do so in order to answer the backlash Open Theism meets from Biblical Christianity and it doesn't answer it but is a good camouflage, deadly all the same.

God is in a true relationship with His people.

 

[7thMoon]

Would you say that God was “surprised” when He repented that He had made man and flooded the earth?

NOPE

 

[Comingfrom]

This makes no sense to me, and I do not see your post relating to the OP.

"your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil".

I believe this warning comes in the beginning of the Bible, lest we presume.

 

[Jasher]

Corruption on the Earth (Matthew 24:36–5
3So the LORD said, “My Spirit will not contend with man forever, a for he is mortal; his days shall be 120 years.”
And the LORD (Yahweh) regretted that He had made man on earth, and He was grieved in His heart.

While some of us hear that his word would not always strive with man, the meaning of which is evident by the reference to the days of man being 120 years. Let me guess, your opinion is that the 120 years refers unto the number of years to the great flood where the waters upon the earth rose above the highest mountain until all the land was covered under water.

So what do you think the LORD covered the earth with like a garment? When you figure what that was then it will come to pass that when the LORD brings a cloud over the earth that the bow shall be seen in the cloud. In the interim, I will just aver to Psalms 90:12.

 

[MatthewG]

While some of us hear that his word would not always strive with man, the meaning of which is evident by the reference to the days of man being 120 years. Let me guess, your opinion is that the 120 years refers unto the number of years to the great flood where the waters upon the earth rose above the highest mountain until all the land was covered under water.

So what do you think the LORD covered the earth with like a garment? When you figure what that was then it will come to pass that when the LORD brings a cloud over the earth that the bow shall be seen in the cloud. In the interim, I will just aver to Psalms 90:12.

Uninterested.

 

[Mr G Lee]

While some of us hear that his word would not always strive with man, the meaning of which is evident by the reference to the days of man being 120 years. Let me guess, your opinion is that the 120 years refers unto the number of years to the great flood where the waters upon the earth rose above the highest mountain until all the land was covered under water.

So what do you think the LORD covered the earth with like a garment? When you figure what that was then it will come to pass that when the LORD brings a cloud over the earth that the bow shall be seen in the cloud. In the interim, I will just aver to Psalms 90:12.

Remember at first nearly a thousand yeas it was then down sized, man could not change .Noah 600 years Abraham lived to be 125 and finally David is given the final average (70 -80)

Psalm 90:9-10King James Version For all our days are passed away in thy wrath: we spend our years as a tale that is told.The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away.

​

 

[Jasher]

Remember at first nearly a thousand yeas it was then down sized, man could not change .Noah 600 years Abraham lived to be 125 and finally David is given the final average (70 -80)

Psalm 90:9-10King James Version For all our days are passed away in thy wrath: we spend our years as a tale that is told.The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away.

Millions of people have lived over 80 years. There is only one verifiable account of a person living over 120 years and the facts surrounding that case strongly indicate that the lady how did was actually the woman's daughter who had assumed her mothers identity to avoid paying the inheritance tax.

Even Moses, whose eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated did not live in the flesh over 120 years on earth.