Open Theism

[Arial]

It tells us God was sorry He had made man, and it tells us He gave Hezekiah 15 more years after Hezekiah prayed. Why can't you simply accept it for what it says?

I do accept it for what it says. What I don't do is use it to create a doctrine that God changes His mind, or use it as the basis to create an entire theological system that promotes a manlike God. One that comes like a ravenous wolf to deceive and destroy the sovereignty of God. It pleases satan well for God's power over him is what he hates most of all.

The Bible is clear that God has changed His mind. It's Reformed theology that says He doesn't, or can't.

It isn't Reformed theology that says that. Reformed theology does say that He doesn't change His mind because God says that about Himself. (Num 23:19; 1 Sam 15:29; Ps 33:11; Is 46:10) And thank God for the theologians and preachers of the Reformation!

 

[shroom]

I do accept it for what it says. What I don't do is use it to create a doctrine that God changes His mind,

The Bible says God changed His mind.

or use it as the basis to create an entire theological system that promotes a manlike God. One that comes like a ravenous wolf to deceive and destroy the sovereignty of God. It pleases satan well for God's power over him is what he hates most of all.

It isn't Reformed theology that says that. Reformed theology does say that He doesn't change His mind because God says that about Himself. (Num 23:19; 1 Sam 15:29; Ps 33:11; Is 46:10) And thank God for the theologians and preachers of the Reformation!

The Hebrew word translated “change his mind” is nacham (#05162 נָחַם). This verse has been considered difficult by some people because it seems to contradict what God has said in other places. For example, a number of verses say that God did change his mind (cp. Exod. 32:14; Jer. 18:8; Jonah 3:10). But the resolution to the apparent contradiction is to realize that Numbers 23:19 (and similarly, 1 Samuel 15:29) is spoken in a specific context, it is not a general statement. The context here in Numbers is Balaam the prophet telling Balak the king of Moab that God will not change His mind about His purpose for Israel, and that therefore God will not allow Balaam to curse Israel no matter how badly Balak wants Him to. [For more on God changing His mind, see commentary on Jer. 18:8].

^^^ https://www.revisedenglishversion.com/Num/23/19 ^^^

 

[Arial]

1M1S -

Maybe we can call it “Partial Puppeteering”
Like Partial Preterism as opposed to Full Preterism.

We are not, ofcourse, God's puppets. This is the uninformed reaction to the theology of God choosing and saving outside of freewill. (I know you hate that theology and I do not want to get into it.) I just popped in to say on the subjects of puppets, that even if that were the case, I would rather spend one day in God's household as His puppet, than thousands elsewhere.

 

[shroom]

We are not, ofcourse, God's puppets. This is the uninformed reaction to the theology of God choosing and saving outside of freewill. (I know you hate that theology and I do not want to get into it.) I just popped in to say on the subjects of puppets, that even if that were the case, I would rather spend one day in God's household as His puppet, than thousands elsewhere.

If Calvinism were true, you wouldn't have a choice.

 

[Arial]

God did change His mind. At least a few times. He was sorry He had made man (Gen 6:4). He gave Hezekiah 15 more years of life after He had said Hez was about to die, but Hez prayed (Isa 38).

Gen 6:6 Since we have Mal 3:6; James 1:17; Num 23:19; 1 Sam 15:29; Ps 33:11; Is 46:10 this statement in Gen must mean something other than that God is a God who repents, is sorry, or changes His mind. As the Bible is full of anthropopathic language, it is safe then to view this in the same way, otherwise it would contradict the other scriptures given. It is depicted in terms of the human experience of knowledge and emotion. The focus of this passage is not whether or not God changes His mind, but rather that a sovereign God deals appropriately with changes in human behavior. It is the blessing or punishment appropriate to the situation that changes, not God's mind. Such is also the case with Hezekiah.

God does not react to human choices and actions. We do not have a reactive God. Anyone who has ever dealt with a reactive dog, or a reactive person, can appreciate this. He responds to them. In Hezekiah's case, we learn the importance of prayer and of repentance. The lesson given is not that God changes His mind.

 

[Arial]

If Calvinism were true, you wouldn't have a choice.

Calvinism doesn't teach that we are puppets. That is simply how you view it. And I spoke in that post as how I feel about it, how I feel about God, not as a doctrinal issue. But you can't resist your bigoted Calvin remarks and threaten once again to pull the thread into a personal exchange having nothing to do with the topic. Have you noticed that circumstance following you wherever you go?

 

[Arial]

The Bible says God changed His mind.

The Hebrew word translated “change his mind” is nacham (#05162 נָחַם). This verse has been considered difficult by some people because it seems to contradict what God has said in other places. For example, a number of verses say that God did change his mind (cp. Exod. 32:14; Jer. 18:8; Jonah 3:10). But the resolution to the apparent contradiction is to realize that Numbers 23:19 (and similarly, 1 Samuel 15:29) is spoken in a specific context, it is not a general statement. The context here in Numbers is Balaam the prophet telling Balak the king of Moab that God will not change His mind about His purpose for Israel, and that therefore God will not allow Balaam to curse Israel no matter how badly Balak wants Him to. [For more on God changing His mind, see commentary on Jer. 18:8].

^^^ https://www.revisedenglishversion.com/Num/23/19 ^^^

What part of what I said did you not understand? This is nothing more than placing a focus on the wrong thing in scriptures in order to arrive at a way of teaching what is false about, of all Ones, God. There is no legitimate reason to do such a thing. It is straining out gnats and swallowing camels in order to undermine who God is. And thanks for giving yet another example that what I said was true about Open Theisms methods, even though you said it was not. Their arguments against what the Bible plainly teaches fall back on reworking the scriptures in a way that makes it appear viable, whether by attacking translations (as in Ps 139) or tactics such as you quote from above.

A God who goes around changing His mind can't be trusted any more than a person who does that. He wouldn't even be God if He was changeable, whether changing His mind or His being. When He responds to something, that is not changing His mind. When He reacts to something, that is changing His mind. I wonder if your heros ever get any understanding of what the Bible is saying or if they even look for it. Or do they spend their days in petty focus on the wrong things to support their false view of God?

 

[Sissy]

The Bible says God changed His mind.

The Hebrew word translated “change his mind” is nacham (#05162 נָחַם). This verse has been considered difficult by some people because it seems to contradict what God has said in other places. For example, a number of verses say that God did change his mind (cp. Exod. 32:14; Jer. 18:8; Jonah 3:10). But the resolution to the apparent contradiction is to realize that Numbers 23:19 (and similarly, 1 Samuel 15:29) is spoken in a specific context, it is not a general statement. The context here in Numbers is Balaam the prophet telling Balak the king of Moab that God will not change His mind about His purpose for Israel, and that therefore God will not allow Balaam to curse Israel no matter how badly Balak wants Him to. [For more on God changing His mind, see commentary on Jer. 18:8].

^^^ https://www.revisedenglishversion.com/Num/23/19 ^^^

Yep.
Scripture tells of times God changes His mind, and also times when God doesn't change His mind.

 

[patience]

Gen 6:6 Since we have Mal 3:6; James 1:17; Num 23:19; 1 Sam 15:29; Ps 33:11; Is 46:10 this statement in Gen must mean something other than that God is a God who repents, is sorry, or changes His mind. As the Bible is full of anthropopathic language, it is safe then to view this in the same way, otherwise it would contradict the other scriptures given. It is depicted in terms of the human experience of knowledge and emotion. The focus of this passage is not whether or not God changes His mind, but rather that a sovereign God deals appropriately with changes in human behavior. It is the blessing or punishment appropriate to the situation that changes, not God's mind. Such is also the case with Hezekiah.

God does not react to human choices and actions. We do not have a reactive God. Anyone who has ever dealt with a reactive dog, or a reactive person, can appreciate this. He responds to them. In Hezekiah's case, we learn the importance of prayer and of repentance. The lesson given is not that God changes His mind.

I would say that, yes, one of God's characteristics is that he does not change (Mal. 3:6); there is no variation or shadow due to change (James 1:17); nor change his mind [as a man does] (Num. 23:19); the glory of Israel will not lie or have regret (1 Sam. 15:29) all in relation to things prophesied concerning His counsel and the plans of His heart (Ps. 33:11); in declaring the end from the beginning, things not yet done, He will accomplish his purpose - He has spoken and will bring it to pass - whatever he has purposed in His plan for mankind (in totality) will be done (paraphrased Isa. 46:10,11). God is faithful.

But in relationship to mankind - seeing the wickedness of man which was great in the earth - Yes, he was sorry that he had made man upon the earth, and it hurt Him that man had rebelled against Him. To Hezekiah, God had set his days upon earth but when Hezekiah cried and prayed - God heard and responded by changing His mind and added 15 years to his life. I believe God answered his prayer to show us that we do matter to him, that we can and should come to him in prayer - He will hear and answer appropriately. (the prayer of a righteous man avails much) Prayer matters and prayer does change things. If God does not react/respond to human choices and actions - why pray at all? BTW - love your play on words "God does not react to human choices and actions - He responds to them" - those two words happen to be synonyms.
When God is said NOT to "change His mind" - it is said in relation to Him being God vs. being a man who makes promises then does not keep them. It is man who lies. It is man who changes with "every wind of doctrine". Which is why the scripture repeatedly says "he is not a man".

 

[shroom]

What part of what I said did you not understand? This is nothing more than placing a focus on the wrong thing in scriptures in order to arrive at a way of teaching what is false about, of all Ones, God. There is no legitimate reason to do such a thing. It is straining out gnats and swallowing camels in order to undermine who God is. And thanks for giving yet another example that what I said was true about Open Theisms methods, even though you said it was not. Their arguments against what the Bible plainly teaches fall back on reworking the scriptures in a way that makes it appear viable, whether by attacking translations (as in Ps 139) or tactics such as you quote from above.

A God who goes around changing His mind can't be trusted any more than a person who does that. He wouldn't even be God if He was changeable, whether changing His mind or His being. When He responds to something, that is not changing His mind. When He reacts to something, that is changing His mind. I wonder if your heros ever get any understanding of what the Bible is saying or if they even look for it. Or do they spend their days in petty focus on the wrong things to support their false view of God?

The Bible SAYS that in several situations God changed His mind.

You simply do not believe the Bible.

 

[Arial]

The Bible SAYS that in several situations God changed His mind.

You simply do not believe the Bible.

It also says in several places that He doesn't change His mind. So do you just pick which one you want to believe, or do you try and figure it out?

 

[shroom]

It also says in several places that He doesn't change His mind. So do you just pick which one you want to believe

Do you? You have... You only believe the ones that say God does not change His mind.

Why bother praying? God is sovereign, right? It doesn't matter whether you pray or not, God knows everything and He's going to do what He determined He would do eons ago.

, or do you try and figure it out?

See Patience's post above. #45 The situation matters.