Obedience to God and Jesus is not a requirement for salvation?

[Jasher]

Did he hear a voice without seeing a man? What does it matter?

What does it matter is an odd question to ask considering what is written in 1 John 4:1.

So do you believe that God still speaks to man with his voice or does he only speak to man by inspiration through the scriptures?

 

[Comingfrom]

Then why did you say our obedience to Him will not save us?????????

that's what illigalists promoting.

If you read my whole post, and not just take the one sentence out of context,
I did explain it.

And my explanation said why obedience is still a requirement.

 

[Comingfrom]

You apparently don't believe Paul.

I am Paul.

 

[Arial]

What does it matter is an odd question to ask considering what is written in 1 John 4:1.

So do you believe that God still speaks to man with his voice or does he only speak to man by inspiration through the scriptures?

I don't need to test the spirits that are IN the Bible. Are you suggesting that Paul should have tested that spirit?

He speaks to us through the scriptures, and the working of the Holy Spirit in us. That does not mean that whatever we imagine in our mind is the Holy Spirit. It does not mean that whatever interpretation we give to a scripture is the Holy Spirit. It all has to line up with the whole counsel of God. It does not mean that everyone who says they have the Holy Spirit indwelling them, does.It does not mean that we never make mistakes in our understanding. It does not mean that we do not have to use our minds and intelligence.

 

[Arial]

Essentially the same thing.

You are just playing a word game.

It is not essentially the same thing. No one is playing word games but you. Does a branch produce fruit if it is disconnected from the vine?

You give half baked replies.

 

[Comingfrom]

The fact is, CF, you spiritualize many of God's commands and do them in your own unique way rather than the way God said to do it in the bible.

Of course I do.

I don't believe God is commanding us to do carnal animal sacrifices,
and actually killing people, when He commanded us to stone them to death.
Do you?

So I did look for His meanings for His commandments.

For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Romans 8:6-7

This makes it convenient to claim that you obey God.

Everyone claims that anyway.
You want us to suppose you are a righteous one, despite all your hard speeches against His law.
(And I don't doubt, you are a kind, likable, and well meaning person. Please don't take me wrong.)

We are under no obligations to receive anyone's testimony,
but we can try their spirits, and check their words.

If any man will do His will, he shall know of the doctrine,
whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
John 7:17

If I also change God's commands to be more to my liking I too can be "perfect."

You have insinuated an accusation here.
Please showed me which commandment, and how I changed it?
And I will regret and reprove.

But since I copy and paste the Lord's words from your own holy book,
your claim rings hollow to me.

Legalists practice this as part and parcel of their works based religion. I used to be really good at this. Relative obedience is a cinch. This, of course, is the most popular from of religion on the planet today. The rules you pick and choose to interpret and fit to your own liking vs, SM, or Shak's is very different but the motive is the same: personal gain.

This comports with the natural flesh in that it is motivated to move from pain to pleasure, but it has no effect on selfishness: the root of evil.

Illegalists can issue many words, saying how the obedient to God's words are doing wrong,
but, having themselves forsaken God's law, are not able to offer up a correction,
and are certainly in no good position at all to be giving advice to the obedient.

For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law;
but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.
Galatians 6:13

For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at His mouth:
for he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts.
But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law;
ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the Lord of hosts.
Malachi 2:7-8

 

[Grace Accepted]

Of course I do.

I don't believe God is commanding us to do carnal animal sacrifices,
and actually killing people, when He commanded us to stone them to death.
Do you?

So I did look for His meanings for His commandments.

For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Romans 8:6-7


Everyone claims that anyway.
You want us to suppose you are a righteous one, despite all your hard speeches against His law.
(And I don't doubt, you are a kind, likable, and well meaning person. Please don't take me wrong.)

We are under no obligations to receive anyone's testimony,
but we can try their spirits, and check their words.

If any man will do His will, he shall know of the doctrine,
whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
John 7:17


You have insinuated an accusation here.
Please showed me which commandment, and how I changed it?
And I will regret and reprove.

No need, CM, you have already confessed that you do at the beginning of this post.

But since I copy and paste the Lord's words from your own holy book,
your claim rings hollow to me.

The truth is in the Spirit. Anyone can manipulate the text.

Illegalists can issue many words, saying how the obedient to God's words are doing wrong,
but, having themselves forsaken God's law, are not able to offer up a correction,
and are certainly in no good position at all to be giving advice to the obedient.

For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law;
but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.
Galatians 6:13

For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at His mouth:
for he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts.
But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law;
ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the Lord of hosts.
Malachi 2:7-8

Never heard of an illegalist So I suppose you better find one and take it up with them.

 

[meshak]

It is not essentially the same thing. No one is playing word games but you. Does a branch produce fruit if it is disconnected from the vine?

You give half baked replies.

bye dear.

 

[Comingfrom]

No need, CM, you have already confessed that you do at the beginning of this post.

You can see it, but you can't quote it, and explain, for me?
and for the congregation to see.

It is enough, that your spirit has proclaimed?

The truth is in the Spirit. Anyone can manipulate the text.

I believe the words Jesus spoke, and the word which He commanded Moses, is the truth.
The truth by which we can try spirits.

For the word of the Lord is right; and all His works are done in truth.
Psalm 33:4

Never heard of an illegalist So I suppose you better find one and take it up with them.

If there is such a word as 'legalist', then the opposite of a legalist would be an 'illegalist'.
And frankly, I rather be on the side of the law.

For the Lord is our judge, the Lord is our lawgiver, the Lord is our king;
He will save us.
Isaiah 33:22

 

[meshak]

If you read my whole post, and not just take the one sentence out of context,
I did explain it.

And my explanation said why obedience is still a requirement.

this is what you said:

What Moon is saying, is that Jesus does the saving.
and our striving to do His commandments is not what saves us.

 

[Comingfrom]

Thank you for that, Meshak.

You went back to my post to get that quote,
(in which I was saying what I thought 7thMoon was saying, btw)
and you omitted to read my explanation again?

Here it is for you again.

And Moon is correct, only he omits to say,
Jesus doesn't manifest Himself to us, except we are keeping His commandments and doing them. (John 14:21)

And if we don't continue on with God's commandments, after Jesus has saved us,
our circumcision is made uncircumcision. (Romans 2:23)

And that is worse than not having been saved at all.

That is saying we still need to be obedient, isn't it?

Salvation is at the Lord's hand,
but why does He save us?; because we desired to be obedient to Him.
Then He comes.
and teaches us how to do the Father's commandments, if we are praying to know them.
Not because we were keeping them, because the vail was still upon our heart,
and the commandments still a mystery to us,
before He comes.

But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
Romans 3:15-16

 

[meshak]

If you read my whole post, and not just take the one sentence out of context,
I did explain it.

And my explanation said why obedience is still a requirement.

You should have said to moon instead of me.