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Jesus Christ IS Yahweh

I love the exchange about this very passage that Jesus has with the religious leaders>>>>


While the Pharisees were assembled, Jesus asked them a question: “What do you think about the Christ? Whose son is he?”

They said, “The son of David.”

He said to them, “How then does David by the Spirit call him ‘Lord,’ saying,

“‘The Lord said to my lord,
“Sit at my right hand, until I put your enemies under your feet”’?

If David then calls him ‘Lord,’ how can he be his son?” No one was able to answer him a word, and from that day on no one dared to question him any longer.


He sets them up and knocks them down. 'What do you think about "the anointed one?"' Who's son is he?

Jesus is saying directly that 'the anointed one' is spiritual, not physical. It's not David, or someone in David's physical lineage-- but by the spirit, David speaks of this anointed one as his lord. He goes on to quote this passage we know as Psalms 110. Before the English translators ever got a chance to mess things up, the Greek translators had done the heavy lifting-- and in their interchange of words, they did great damage to the text.
 
Most fascinating?

Neither David, nor Jesus in referencing the account of David, make any attempt at all to call Yahweh- 'the Father.' It's not the same.

You'll hear of Jesus referring to the Father, and our Father and his Father -- repeatedly. Never once does he interchange the Father, for Yahweh.

Jesus--- (apologies to the OP of this thread) ---Jesus is NOT Yahweh. And neither is his lord.
 
Elohim stand in the assembly of the Chief
in the midst of the elohim he (the Chief) renders judgment.

He says, “How long will you make unjust legal decisions
and show favoritism to the wicked?
Defend the cause of the poor and the fatherless.
Vindicate the oppressed and suffering.
Rescue the poor and needy.
Deliver them from the power of the wicked.
They neither know nor understand.
They stumble around in the dark,
while all the foundations of the earth crumble.
I (the Chief) thought, ‘You are elohim;
all of you are sons of the supreme one (the Father).’
Yet you will die like mortals;
you will fall like all the other rulers.”
Rise up, O elohim, and execute judgment on the earth!

For you (elohim) own all the nations.
 
Jesus pointed to this passage (above) as well, with clarity. Their questions were about what he had said concerning the anointed one.

“How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the anointed one, tell us plainly.”

Jesus replied, “I told you and you do not believe. The deeds I do in my Father’s name testify about me. But you refuse to believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; no one will snatch them from my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one can snatch them from my Father’s hand. The Father and I are one.”

The Jewish leaders picked up rocks again to stone him to death. Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good deeds from the Father. For which one of them are you going to stone me?”

The Jewish leaders replied, “We are not going to stone you for a good deed but for blasphemy because you, a man, are claiming to be God.”

Jesus answered, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, you are gods’? If those people to whom the word of God came were called ‘gods’ (and the scripture cannot be broken), do you say about the one whom the Father set apart and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? If I do not perform the deeds of my Father, do not believe me. But if I do them, even if you do not believe me, believe the deeds, so that you may come to know and understand that I am in the Father and the Father is in me.”

He's referencing Psalms 82 and these spiritual beings-- elohim. Unfortunately, again-- the Greek mashes terms together.
 
Mr E said:
and they do the same, using a generic "God" where the scriptures state clearly elohim, or a variation of it, as they do with Lord.
Click to expand...
Abuse of capitalization. Generic is lowercase god. Many are deceived by trinitarians intepretations that, as you say, torture the text. I ask the insightful question that trinitarians shy away from. Why torture the text?

The reason is simple. There is no trinity verse. To be clear, when I write that the trinity is not found anywhere in Scripture, I mean that neither the word nor the concept of the trinity is explicitly in the Bible. To avoid the inevitable Appeal to Strawman, there simply is no verse that reads something like The nature of God is a trinity - consisting of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit who are co-equal, co-substantial and co-eternal - and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved but are damned to hell forever. If there were such a verse, it would be the most quoted verse in Scripture by those who claim one’s salvation depends on believing it. The concept of the trinity is so important that in 66 books, it is not mentioned once!

Rather than abandon this obvious 1st-Commandment-violating idol, trinitarians resort to ignoring or subordinating explicit teachings in Scripture to inferences (reading their doctrine into the non-trinitarian text), mystical dualism and artificial synthesis. At the same time, trinitarians give no weight to inferences that undermine the trinity dogma. Finally, they admit no rejection criteria; what set of words would reasonably justify rejecting the trinity.
 
Wrangler said:
But he does interchange the Father with his God, who is YHWH, @ John 20:17.
Click to expand...

Not so. All he says there is 'My Father and your Father... My God and your God.'

You'd have to insert "Yahweh" where the text does not.
 
Mr E said:
Not so. All he says there is 'My Father and your Father... My God and your God.'

You'd have to insert "Yahweh" where the text does not.
Click to expand...
Other verses say the only God is named YHWH. That’s my point about John 20:17; Jesus established the only true God, YHWH (already established in OT), is his God and Father.

That answers your question.

If you want a verse that references all 3 - YHWH, God and Father - there is none.
 
I keep going back to why do trinitarians think it is important to believe the man-is-god thesis?

There are many good reasons to reject it, including:
1 Timothy 1:17 (NLT) All honor and glory to God forever and ever! He (singular) is the eternal King, the unseen one (singular) who never dies; he (singular) alone (singular) is God. Amen. (emphasis added)
 
Wrangler said:
I keep going back to why do trinitarians think it is important to believe the man-is-god thesis?

There are many good reasons to reject it, including:
1 Timothy 1:17 (NLT) All honor and glory to God forever and ever! He (singular) is the eternal King, the unseen one (singular) who never dies; he (singular) alone (singular) is God. Amen. (emphasis added)
Click to expand...

I think it's cognitive dissonance. I really do. --Once a person has decided for themselves a premise, whether something they came up with themselves or something they've been taught- it's very difficult for them to ever move beyond that. They suffer a disease called confirmation bias where they employ a lens that only supports the premise they've established. Chief among the symptoms is confidence. They are certain of the premise, because they believe it to be true, as if believing and becoming are the same thing. A truth is a truth even when no one believes it, and something doesn't become true, simply by believing it to be so.

Trinitarians believe Jesus to be God and this is the premise they've consolidated all their other beliefs around. It's foundational and as such it's almost unmovable. This immovability, they would argue is a strength, while I believe it's an anchor they drag through life like a ball and chain. But it's central to their whole belief system and since it is, I think the best approach is to recognize the fact when in conversation with them. You don't have to agree with them, but you can't tell them they can't believe what they already do.
 
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