Changes in perspective

[meshak]

It would seem that some have no understanding what it means to grow in grace, the milk of the word .Some are to busy chewing on bullocks.

And most don't know it.

What is the milk of the word?

 

[Mr G Lee]

And most don't know it.

What is the milk of the word?

Its that which keeps us in the bosom or presence of God .In that way we never outgrow the need of milk .

1 Peter 2:1-3King James Version2 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.

Hebrews 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

 

[meshak]

Its that which keeps us in the bosom or presence of God .In that way we never outgrow the need of milk .

1 Peter 2:1-3King James Version2 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.

Hebrews 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

Can you explain more practical ways?

 

[Comingfrom]

You are not dead yet, sweetie.

And I am not going to, sweetie.
I have His everlasting life.

Jesus said unto her,
I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die.
Believest thou this?
John 11:25-26

 

[Comingfrom]

I said my understanding of grace grew. Just as my understanding of scripture grew. Following the same created order of learning as we grow. I learned to walk, mastered that, then learned to run. Learned to talk, then learned to read etc. A Christian who doesn't grow in understanding of scripture, and have their perspectives on some things changed, is either neglecting the word or refuses to listen and learn.

That's what I believe.
It just sounded like you always thought "it" is about grace, and your growth only confirmed that.

I know that no one but Jesus has or ever will fulfill the law. "By the law no one is justified."

I believe the scripture, that thousands have.
(Probably not many thousands.)

And the Lord says, Blessed are those that do keep the law.

And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love Me, and keep My commandments.
Exodus 20:6

St Paul obviously believe some will fulfil the law.

And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee,
who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
Romans 2:27

And here is an example from scripture for you.

There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea,
a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia:
and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
Luke 1:5-6

Your end has not yet come and neither has the end of the age.

I let the Lord announce that for me.

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations;
and then shall the end come.
Matthew 24:14

Again, you take for yourself what belongs to another. And do not take for yourself the other side of the coin. You take the covenant blessings given to Israel as your own, (Deut 28:1-13) ignore the command of verse 14 So shall you not turn aside from any of the words which I command you this day, to the right or the left, to go after other gods to serve them. And say the blessings of Israel apply but the curses of Deut 28:15-68. Surely your do not think that picking a few of the commandments, and those not the actual commandments but you're making a shambles of a metaphors out of them, means that you keep all the commandments that God gave to Israel.

You would to take from me what God has given me, but you can't, dear Israel.
And you refuse to claim what is promised to you, O Jerusalem.

And, behold, I send the promise of My Father upon you:
but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
Luke 24:49

No one is on top of the law. We are either under its obligations and penalties, as with any law, even the laws of Australia for you. Or in the case of the Sinai covenant law you are under by your own choice, or one has been delivered from the law being able to curse them or condemn them to death. Gal 3:13. Being delivered from this curse comes by grace through faith in who Jesus is and what He accomplished on that cross.

I show you a scripture, you respond by saying the opposite.
And then babble on some.

But I don't think you can see it.

Could the Lord have said it more plainly than He did, in His law?

Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;
A blessing,
if ye obey the commandments of the Lord your God, which I command you this day:
And a curse,
if ye will not obey the commandments of the Lord your God,
but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day,
to go after other gods, which ye have not known.
Deuteronomy 11:26-28

 

[freelight]

I spoke to Christians, I went with them to their church,
and I went to many churches.
And I ploughed the Internet and went to the forums, where those that claim to be in Christ congregate,
and so I heard the message.

Jesus died for us.
We are saved by grace.
One has to have faith.
Believe the word of the cross.
The law of God ended, was abolished, is old, a shadow, impossible to keep, a curse, and some even say, death.

I take a universal approach,.....all can be interpreted symbolically.....especially the birth, death, resurrection, ascension of Jesus as the path and prototype of our own 'process' of 'rebirth',...since the 'Christ' in us is the light, power, logos of 'God' within, since we are the living temples of 'God'. - The omnipresence of 'God' fills all in all,.....we are but individual expressions of The One God,.........individual tabernacles, and one universal Tabernacle, the body of the Christos. The reality of our own soul being the dwelling place of 'God' is a mighty truth to consider.

No true and universal law or principle ever 'dies' since its reality and function continues to operate in any given domain, so only human made and obsolete ideas, laws, customs, assumptions may fall away or be discarded, while the eternal laws of the universe and nature always HOLD. - if there is a new covenant or testament that divine Spirit has inspired, then that will be a more perfect better revelation of the Creator and universal law......in spirit and truth. The rituals and strict laws given to the Jews, over 600 laws, was for THEM, not 'christians' as we know and define them today, especially most NT believing christians as they interpret Paul's gospel and its rejection of the old mosaic laws.

It might be better if you just became a full fledge orthodox Jew and stick with the Tanahk, if you have such a love for Jewish law and customs, if the Jewish flavor or religion or philosophy is more appealing to you,.....have you thought of that? There are some branches within Judaism that may fit your particular 'preferences', perhaps a more Jesus friendly messianic kind

All in clear contradiction to what God's word says, and what Jesus said.
At least, as far as I could see.
And when it came to helping me understand the things Jesus spoke,
I got very few straight answers.
And plenty of accusation, telling me I didn't have faith, can't be saved, even of the devil,
just for inquiring.

Most follow a more traditional orthodox christian interpretation of the Bible, so take Paul's writings to read that the Old covenant and its laws given thru Moses are now obsolete, so most of the problem and differences is how one interprets the NT passages about this, and how much of the OT people are willing to accept or hold onto, and what they believe the NT teaches as all they need for 'salvation', etc. - Since there are many WAYS to translate and interpret the Bible or NT particularly......which is why we see so many doctrinal views and differences in the many sects within CHristendom.

'The Bible' as we know it is a more of a 'christian' innovation and compilation, which was only really canonized in its traditional and accepted form by 'christians' in later centuries after Jesus, 3rd - 4th century, with variations and contests over some books being included or not. Orthodox Jews do NOT accept the NT, neither include it in their 'bible'.

Something was not right.
How can they be so sure of their faith?
when they don't even know, can't answer simple questions about, God's words.
And have to resort to accusing me, just for asking questions, and pointing out what the Lord said.
Which only made me inquire, and pray, even more.
And learn the law.

I say continue to go with 'God' and the light of holy spirit within you, asking always for divine guidance and discernment. This is the path for all. The infinite 'God' and universal truth cannot be only contained or owned by any one religous cult, school or sect, (or 'personality' for that matter) for Real God is actually infinite, the only absolute reality at the Heart of all that is,......all else is but a relative expression, distortion or point of view within the great body of 'God', who is the sole life and consciousness that fills and pervades the whole of existence.

Note as well, that Jews only represent less than 5% of the religious population of the world, (and christians only about 1/3 of the religious population of the globe....Islam may soon surpass it) so their claim to being the sole custodians of truth, or being God's only chosen people is a rather remarkable claim, while their 'scriptures' are subject to be figuratively interpreted whose universal truths apply to the whole of mankind. 'All shall be taught of God', for that Deity that is the One Infinite Creator wills and guides all souls back to Himself, because this BEING is love. A student of truth will consider study all religous traditions and their sacred writings, even if he chooses a particular tradition to associate with or work within. A universal student or devotee of 'God' includes God's universality as his world view, for the divine nature could not be otherwise, since what is universal, is just that....universal

I hold to God's omnipresence, and as the only absolute reality, That which IS......since 'God' is the sole energy, light, life, truth of existence and creation, the One and Only, the Infinite One, the Universal Absolute. This 'God' is law, and those who are one with 'God' are a law unto themselves....which is the one and only law that sustains and gives life(immortality) to all who choose it.

And it shall be with him, and he shall read therein all the days of his life:
that he may learn to fear the Lord his God,
to keep all the words of this law and these statutes, to do them:
Deuteronomy 17:19

Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly,
nor standeth in the way of sinners,
nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
but his delight is in the law of the Lord;
and in His law doth he meditate day and night.
Psalm 1:1-2

There is truth in the OT, and as noted before, ONLY those truths that are eternal and universal apply to all souls who would choose the Way, and be the temples of 'God'....allowing the 'Christ' to be formed in them, accepting the gift of immortality and the ascension. As we see the 'law' of the Creator, this is that eternal universal law of divine nature, which is the essence and activity of pure love, all creation being love's intent and expression in relationship. So we have to intuit in the heart what the law of God is, and allow the spirit of God to breathe its principle into us so we can abide in the Spirit and bear its fruit. Spirit is life.

Right now, as we surrender to 'God' and abide in him...the fullness of 'God' abides in us, and we embody and live the law of God,....because the divine nature invests itself in us, as we cooperate and allow the Spirit to govern and guide. This is a universal path of love and wisdom, so the spiritual reality and power of this way of being and state of consciousness is what is essential (key), if we would be Gods light and glory in the earth (divinity in earthen vessels).

This is all for now


---------------------o

 

[Comingfrom]

It would seem that some have no understanding what it means to grow in grace, the milk of the word .

But ye, beloved,
building up yourselves on your most holy faith,
praying in the Holy Ghost, keep yourselves in the love of God,
looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
Jude 1:20-21

Some are to busy chewing on bullocks.

You get your comfort from St Paul's sayings,
I get my meat from Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, and the prophets and Jesus.

I have fed you with milk, and not with meat:
for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
1 Corinthians 3:2

 

[Comingfrom]

I take a universal approach,.....all can be interpreted symbolically.....especially the birth, death, resurrection, ascension of Jesus as the path and prototype of our own 'process' of 'rebirth',...since the 'Christ' in us is the light, power, logos of 'God' within, since we are the living temples of 'God'. - The omnipresence of 'God' fills all in all,.....we are but individual expressions of The One God,.........individual tabernacles, and one universal Tabernacle, the body of the Christos. The reality of our own soul being the dwelling place of 'God' is a mighty truth to consider.

No true and universal law or principle ever 'dies' since its reality and function continues to operate in any given domain, so only human made and obsolete ideas, laws, customs, assumptions may fall away or be discarded, while the eternal laws of the universe and nature always HOLD. - if there is a new covenant or testament that divine Spirit has inspired, then that will be a more perfect better revelation of the Creator and universal law......in spirit and truth. The rituals and strict laws given to the Jews, over 600 laws, was for THEM, not 'christians' as we know and define them today, especially most NT believing christians as they interpret Paul's gospel and its rejection of the old mosaic laws.

It might be better if you just became a full fledge orthodox Jew and stick with the Tanahk, if you have such a love for Jewish law and customs, if the Jewish flavor or religion or philosophy is more appealing to you,.....have you thought of that? There are some branches within Judaism that may fit your particular 'preferences', perhaps a more Jesus friendly messianic kind

Some people think I take the scripture symbolically, but I don't.
I believe in it and do it literally.
I believe heaven, and spirits, are real,
and the Lord is instructing us on these these things, in His law.

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:4

Most follow a more traditional orthodox christian interpretation of the Bible, so take Paul's writings to read that the Old covenant and its laws given thru Moses are now obsolete, so most of the problem and differences is how one interprets the NT passages about this, and how much of the OT people are willing to accept or hold onto, and what they believe the NT teaches as all they need for 'salvation', etc. - Since there are many WAYS to translate and interpret the Bible or NT particularly......which is why we see so many doctrinal views and differences in the many sects within CHristendom.

'The Bible' as we know it is a more of a 'christian' innovation and compilation, which was only really canonized in its traditional and accepted form by 'christians' in later centuries after Jesus, 3rd - 4th century, with variations and contests over some books being included or not. Orthodox Jews do NOT accept the NT, neither include it in their 'bible'.



I say continue to go with 'God' and the light of holy spirit within you, asking always for divine guidance and discernment. This is the path for all. The infinite 'God' and universal truth cannot be only contained or owned by any one religous cult, school or sect, (or 'personality' for that matter) for Real God is actually infinite, the only absolute reality at the Heart of all that is,......all else is but a relative expression, distortion or point of view within the great body of 'God', who is the sole life and consciousness that fills and pervades the whole of existence.

Note as well, that Jews only represent less than 5% of the religious population of the world, (and christians only about 1/3 of the religious population of the globe....Islam may soon surpass it) so their claim to being the sole custodians of truth, or being God's only chosen people is a rather remarkable claim, while their 'scriptures' are subject to be figuratively interpreted whose universal truths apply to the whole of mankind. 'All shall be taught of God', for that Deity that is the One Infinite Creator wills and guides all souls back to Himself, because this BEING is love. A student of truth will consider study all religous traditions and their sacred writings, even if he chooses a particular tradition to associate with or work within. A universal student or devotee of 'God' includes God's universality as his world view, for the divine nature could not be otherwise, since what is universal, is just that....universal

I hold to God's omnipresence, and as the only absolute reality, That which IS......since 'God' is the sole energy, light, life, truth of existence and creation, the One and Only, the Infinite One, the Universal Absolute. This 'God' is law, and those who are one with 'God' are a law unto themselves....which is the one and only law that sustains and gives life(immortality) to all who choose it.

I meet lots that are claiming to be a child of God,
but when I show them some things God says, then they say , "That was only for Israel", and, "We are not Israel".

I can only wonder, does that mean their God is not the God of Israel?

The ox knoweth his owner, and the donkey his master's crib:
but Israel doth not know, My people doth not consider.
Isaiah 1:3

There is truth in the OT, and as noted before, ONLY those truths that are eternal and universal apply to all souls who would choose the Way, and be the temples of 'God'....allowing the 'Christ' to be formed in them, accepting the gift of immortality and the ascension. As we see the 'law' of the Creator, this is that eternal universal law of divine nature, which is the essence and activity of pure love, all creation being love's intent and expression in relationship. So we have to intuit in the heart what the law of God is, and allow the spirit of God to breathe its principle into us so we can abide in the Spirit and bear its fruit. Spirit is life.

Right now, as we surrender to 'God' and abide in him...the fullness of 'God' abides in us, and we embody and live the law of God,....because the divine nature invests itself in us, as we cooperate and allow the Spirit to govern and guide. This is a universal path of love and wisdom, so the spiritual reality and power of this way of being and state of consciousness is what is essential (key), if we would be Gods light and glory in the earth (divinity in earthen vessels).

This is all for now


---------------------o

I searched for and found His altar, and His tabernacle.
I brought Him my bullocks.
I made the ark of the covenant, and the shewtable and candlestick.
All according as He showed me in the mount.

Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and Thy law is the truth.
Psalm 119:142

 

[freelight]

Some people think I take the scripture symbolically, but I don't.
I believe in it and do it literally.
I believe heaven, and spirits, are real,
and the Lord is instructing us on these these things, in His law.

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:4

All language is interpreted symbolically, and I agree only the Spirit of 'God' is life, that is why Paul says walk in the Spirit, embody the spirit, and bear the fruit of Spirit, because God is SPIRIT,........'scripture' is to be appropriately translated/interpreted in its proper context. Again, if you want to take all 613 laws of Moses as your 'law code of life', then becoming an true 'orthodox' Jew could be your path, to be fully incorporated into the Jewish way of life, and culture - do you have a local synogogue? - why not take the full dive into Judaism by joining its faith? Otherwise, I'm fine with just being a 'good person' and using the Bible as one of your guides to live your life and be of service to the world. I'm pretty liberal and eclectic myself

As we noted before, the law of Deity is love, because this 'God' is actually LOVE itself, therefore acting according to this law and its principle in the heart is all that is essential or required to enjoy all that 'God' has and all that 'God' IS. If your body is the very temple of 'God', then your soul is too, since your body is included as your 'soul' in jewish understanding. The kingdom of Spirit is within and also all-pervading, as there is no outside of 'God' who is omnipresent.

I meet lots that are claiming to be a child of God,
but when I show them some things God says, then they say , "That was only for Israel", and, "We are not Israel".

I can only wonder, does that mean their God is not the God of Israel?

The Universal Father is the Father and 'God' of all, even if they dont choose to follow 'God' or by their own free will choose the path of death, disintegration. All who respsond to God's law (love) and call on 'God' shall be saved, since our response to love and its full allowance is the WAY. That is a certainty, because once one is established in love, they are God secured - 'eternal security' can only be an inheritance for those wholly invested in divine law and will. Love outshines and absolves all.

The ox knoweth his owner, and the donkey his master's crib:
but Israel doth not know, My people doth not consider.
Isaiah 1:3


I searched for and found His altar, and His tabernacle.
I brought Him my bullocks.
I made the ark of the covenant, and the shewtable and candlestick.
All according as He showed me in the mount.

Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and Thy law is the truth.
Psalm 119:142

Well, thats all good and well, as God's law is eternal, -such love directs all the movements of life, all creation and its eternal progression, and ultimately bestows the gift of immortality, because all souls who respond to 'God' become partakers of the divine nature.


-------------o

 

[Comingfrom]

All language is interpreted symbolically, and I agree only the Spirit of 'God' is life, that is why Paul says walk in the Spirit, embody the spirit, and bear the fruit of Spirit, because God is SPIRIT,........'scripture' is to be appropriately translated/interpreted in its proper context. Again, if you want to take all 613 laws of Moses as your 'law code of life', then becoming an true 'orthodox' Jew could be your path, to be fully incorporated into the Jewish way of life, and culture - do you have a local synogogue? - why not take the full dive into Judaism by joining its faith? Otherwise, I'm fine with just being a 'good person' and using the Bible as one of your guides to live your life and be of service to the world. I'm pretty liberal and eclectic myself

As we noted before, the law of Deity is love, because this 'God' is actually LOVE itself, therefore acting according to this law and its principle in the heart is all that is essential or required to enjoy all that 'God' has and all that 'God' IS. If your body is the very temple of 'God', then your soul is too, since your body is included as your 'soul' in jewish understanding. The kingdom of Spirit is within and also all-pervading, as there is no outside of 'God' who is omnipresent.

The words the Lord spoke are spirit, and are life.

Therefore shall ye lay up these My words in your heart and in your soul,
and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.
Deuteronomy 11:18

The Universal Father is the Father and 'God' of all, even if they dont choose to follow 'God' or by their own free will choose the path of death, disintegration. All who respsond to God's law (love) and call on 'God' shall be saved, since our response to love and its full allowance is the WAY. That is a certainty, because once one is established in love, they are God secured - 'eternal security' can only be an inheritance for those wholly invested in divine law and will. Love outshines and absolves all.

Ye shall walk in all the ways which the Lord your God hath commanded you,
that ye may live, and that it may be well with you,
and that ye may prolong your days in the land which ye shall possess.
Deuteronomy 5:33

Well, thats all good and well, as God's law is eternal, -such love directs all the movements of life, all creation and its eternal progression, and ultimately bestows the gift of immortality, because all souls who respond to 'God' become partakers of the divine nature.


-------------o

Therefore thou shalt keep the commandments of the Lord thy God, to walk in His ways, and to fear Him.
Deuteronomy 8:6

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments:
and His commandments are not grievous.
1 John 5:3

 

[Mr G Lee]

But ye, beloved,
building up yourselves on your most holy faith,
praying in the Holy Ghost, keep yourselves in the love of God,
looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
Jude 1:20-21

You offered a verse not its understanding of grace . Why not just say; its in the Bible, every time a person questions.

What do you say not what does the bible say it can have various offerings or personal understandings. Try drinking the milk of the word it teaches us God is gracious to those who he has mercy on.

You get your comfort from St Paul's sayings,
I get my meat from Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, and the prophets and Jesus.

They are any more Paul's sayings then they are Moses saying both represent the milk of the word teaching us God is gracious.

No milk, no meat.

I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
1 Corinthians 3:2

 

[meshak]

And I am not going to, sweetie.

Christianity is a way of life and it is life long endeavor.

You don't become like Christ in a day.

You believe you are christ like already and saved.

You are no different from the "Christians" you belittle, claiming to be saved.

blessings, pumpkin.