American Black Nightshade and Reincarnation--- huh?

[Mr E]

To the angel of the church in Smyrna write the following:
Remain faithful even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown that is life itself. The one who has an ear had better hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who conquers will in no way be harmed by the second death.’

1. Eternal life
2. The crown that is life itself, and unharmed by the second death.

James 1:12 describes it like this>>

Happy is the one who endures testing because when he has proven to be genuine, he will receive the crown of life that God promised to those who love him.

A victor's crown-- like Olympians would receive for enduring and winning a race. A stephanos--

 

[Mr E]

As an aside-- for interest's sake--

This is a skull that was dug up from what was presumed to be a champion athlete's grave from roughly 2000 years ago. This is a stephanos that was found, now housed in a museum in Greece>>




The Greco-Roman period finds are exhibited in Room 7 and are mostly from a Roman cemetery at Potamos in the city of Agios Nikolaos dated first century A.D. They include glass perfume bottles; their function was originally mistaken and they are wrongly called "tear bottles". The most extraordinary exhibit of this era is the athlete's skull that was found with the wreath fixed to it and a coin in his mouth. The coin, which stayed in place for 1900 years, left traces of green oxidation on the jaw bone. The coin was the traditional payment to the ferryman Charon for the dead person's journey across the river Styx. More interesting, however, is that this coin is from the western city of Polirinia, near Kastelli, Chania

 

[Mr E]

As for 'the second death' -the first death is your physical death. The end of your physical life upon which your spirit returns to God as in all of these examples recorded for us. The second death is not physical, but spiritual. It's the equivalent of burning brush or chaff after pruning or harvesting and it's simply a way of getting rid of the useless debris and waste-- those unfruitful branches we read about. It shouldn't be thought of as endless suffering, as that's not what it's about, rather it's a means of disposal. It's not to punish the ineffective branches, it's to preserve and protect and benefit the tree that remains.

There is something very interesting going on here, with this second death, where these spirits are sent to be consumed. It's judgment on them, that's a given.... and that's what fire represents. But consider this. When the angels rebelled and were sent away from the presence of God, where were they sent? They were "consumed" by their lusts and passions and idolatry--- and their punishment was separation from the Father, who gave them over to the desires of their hearts. And so when they were banished from the paradise of God- they were made capitive to their own creation, and given 'life sentences' to serve-- in human "cells" on the physical plane. From a spiritual perspective and by comparison with that Paradise above, this earthly world is that place of consumption. That fire/judgment, that second death. You are judged and condemned to die, again.

 

[Mr E]

To the angel of the church in Pergamum write the following---

The one who has an ear had better hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers, I will give him some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, and on that stone will be written a new name that no one can understand except the one who receives it.’

1. Eternal life
2. The crown that is life itself, and unharmed by the second death.
3. Hidden manna and a white stone on which is written a new name that no one knows except the one who receives it.

The 'hidden manna' isn't particularly mysterious.

Jesus said--
“I tell you the solemn truth, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but my Father is giving you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is the one who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” So they said to him, “Sir, give us this bread all the time!”
Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life.
and---

Just as the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so the one who consumes me will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven; it is not like the bread your ancestors ate, but then later died. The one who eats this bread will live forever.”

He's talking about himself in relation to this bread from heaven (manna) and he explains that man can't live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of the Father-- the word of the father that became flesh.

For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. The one who eats my flesh and drinks my blood resides in me, and I in him.
The white stone however is not well-defined. Ezekiel 36 puts it like this>>>

I will give you a new heart, and I will put a new spirit within you. I will remove the heart of stone from your body and give you a heart of flesh. I will put my Spirit within you...
Elsewhere it's mentioned with respect to the law of God that is inscribed on the (stone) tablet of our hearts, so it's evident that this stone has something to do with our hearts and by association, our life. A stone is a new life. A white stone is one that is pure, innocent and new--- and it comes with no baggage, guilt, burdens or 'karma' attached. It's new, as every babe born is a new life, innocent and pure and with every new life- a new name is given. A new identity. A new start. You are born again, just as Jesus said you must be to be 'of the kingdom.' Born of spirit.

You must be born again.

Jesus answered, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must all be born from above.’ The wind blows wherever it will, and you hear the sound it makes, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

 

[Mr E]

To the angel of the church in Thyatira write the following:

And to the one who conquers and who continues in my deeds until the end, I will give him authority over the nations — he will rule them with an iron rod, and like clay jars he will break them to pieces, just as I have received the right to rule from my Father—and I will give him the morning star.

1. Eternal life
2. The crown that is life itself, and unharmed by the second death.
3. Hidden manna and a white stone on which is written a new name that no one knows except the one who receives it.
4. Authority to rule over nations and the morning star.

 

[Victoryinjesus]

To the angel of the church in Thyatira write the following:

And to the one who conquers and who continues in my deeds until the end, I will give him authority over the nations — he will rule them with an iron rod, and like clay jars he will break them to pieces, just as I have received the right to rule from my Father—and I will give him the morning star.

1. Eternal life
2. The crown that is life itself, and unharmed by the second death.
3. Hidden manna and a white stone on which is written a new name that no one knows except the one who receives it.
4. Authority to rule over nations and the morning star.

Love this thread. I was reading it before I signed up. It was one reason I signed up. I love all the helpful insights you’ve given from the start of the thread. One place though I’m struggling with is the second death. I struggled there because I’m not sure I’d agree because it leaves out 2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constrains us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

Why is this not counted as the first death?
I’m not saying I’m stuck on being right but I have questions about the second death which holds no power over those of the first resurrection (because they have been prepared of God having already passed from darkness unto Light).

Significant (Imo) is the crown of Life, unharmed by the second death. Paul seems to refer to the crown of Life as “them” “they’re being present, presented with him” … “You are my crown of rejoicing” which is triumphant over death. As He lived by the power of God…so we also are weak in Him but we shall LIVE by the Power of God toward you. All this to me speaks of not being barren or unfruitful but “increased of God” where ‘see no man takes your crown of rejoicing away from you’. To me this is all promised to those walking in the Spirit and not after the flesh …where they fear not death as if the seed of Christ did not bear Fruit before they see death. Storing up against that which is to come upon us all. Preparing against that day…with a crown of Life unharmed by the second death. (Fruit)

Does any of that make sense? There has to be a reason you are no more of the darkness but of the Light. The darkness has passed …the first death…fear not for I have overcome death. walk you in newness of life.

 

[Mr E]

Love this thread. I was reading it before I signed up. It was one reason I signed up. I love all the helpful insights you’ve given from the start of the thread. One place though I’m struggling with is the second death. I struggled there because I’m not sure I’d agree because it leaves out 2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constrains us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

Why is this not counted as the first death?
I’m not saying I’m stuck on being right but I have questions about the second death which holds no power over those of the first resurrection (because they have been prepared of God having already passed from darkness unto Light).

Significant (Imo) is the crown of Life, unharmed by the second death. Paul seems to refer to the crown of Life as “them” “they’re being present, presented with him” … “You are my crown of rejoicing” which is triumphant over death. As He lived by the power of God…so we also are weak in Him but we shall LIVE by the Power of God toward you. All this to me speaks of not being barren or unfruitful but “increased of God” where ‘see no man takes your crown of rejoicing away from you’. To me this is all promised to those walking in the Spirit and not after the flesh …where they fear not death as if the seed of Christ did not bear Fruit before they see death. Storing up against that which is to come upon us all. Preparing against that day…with a crown of Life unharmed by the second death. (Fruit)

Does any of that make sense? There has to be a reason you are no more of the darkness but of the Light. The darkness has passed …the first death…fear not for I have overcome death. walk you in newness of life.

I'll try to explain this for you, but it might become more clear as we go along and look at these few remaining proclamations to the angels, and specifically to those spirits who become overcomers/conquerors/victors over death.

Can we agree that the first death is physical? Heb 9:27

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.
These accounts in Rev 2 and 3 are examples of just that. The second death is described in detail in Rev 21 as 'the lake of fire that burns with fire and brimstone.' It's a place reserved for those who are judged to be unworthy of reward-- and those judged worthy, the conquerors- have no fear of it, as they will never be harmed by it.

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Jesus paints a picture in a slightly different way in Matt 13:36-43 and that parable of the seeds, that he said is the key to understanding all parables. Have a look at the emboldened parts below--

He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
The tares, remember are those fearful, unbelieving, abominable..... and so on. The angels gather these and throw them into this fire (judgment) putting an end to them in spirit-- and they are no more. Up in smoke. This is the second death, and it's spiritual- not physical.

But not the conquerors-- and it is only the conquerors who receive a crown of life. It is reserved as a reward for victors. All die, all are raised- the spirit returning to God and all stand before Him for judgment. Only the worthy receive the crown of life and are preserved from the second death. There's a nuance here, that I'm not going to go into right now--but remember for future reference that the gospel was preached to the captives in the lower parts of the earth, to the dead as noted in 1 Peter 4:6 and Eph 4:9.

When Paul speaks of the Thessalonians as being his crown, he is using the concept within this context-- as an example of reward and honor-- the same way a victor is recognized at the end of a race. He's making the same association, but not the same point. He says of them--

For you are our glory and joy! (like a champion's crown).

The only way, time and place to receive a crown of life-- a champion's crown is to be found worthy and victorious over death. In other words, you have to first die, to receive this reward. And it's also central to this idea of life after death-- of many lives. We'll get to it eventually, but look at what is said of this rider of the white horse in Rev 19:11

He has many crowns.

 

[Victoryinjesus]

Can we agree that the first death is physical? Heb 9:27

Agree. I don’t know how to put it into words, but the way I see it in my mind is: some wait for physical death to come. For some physical death has already come and passed in Jesus Christ.

So if physical death hasn’t come yet then it’s ahead? No? Then going into the grave is viewed as the first death. Having not passed. His having not come in the flesh.

If death has already came in Crucified with Christ, then it’s behind. No? Then that was the first death. Then what is the second that holds no power over those of the first resurrection?

Wrong or right…that is how my mind sees it which to me does take the sting out of being 56 …and knowing I’ll be cremated. When that time comes. To me the message is to not fear this second death for it holds no power, by His words that darkness and death has already passed. Do not be afraid.

When Paul speaks of the Thessalonians as being his crown, he is using the concept within this context-- as an example of reward and honor-- the same way a victor is recognized at the end of a race. He's making the same association, but not the same point. He says of them--

For you are our glory and joy! (like a champion's crown).

I can’t stop thinking of the uniqueness of Jesus Christ who for the Joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame. Personally, I think that the Joy He endure for…was that others through His becoming poor, be made rich. Paul follows the model, the same example. to the Corinthians he wrote “We are glad when we are weak, and you are strong. This we hope, even your perfection.”

The only way, time and place to receive a crown of life-- a champion's crown is to be found worthy and victorious over death. In other words, you have to first die, to receive this reward. And it's also central to this idea of life after death-- of many lives. We'll get to it eventually, but look at what is said of this rider of the white horse in Rev 19:11

He has many crowns.

Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

 

[Mr E]

Wrong or right…that is how my mind sees it which to me does take the sting out of being 56 …and knowing I’ll be cremated. When that time comes. To me the message is to not fear this second death for it holds no power, by His words that darkness and death has already passed. Do not be afraid.

Indeed. Since he had the power to lay down his life, and the ability to take it up again-- what fear would he have of death, knowing it isn't any kind of permanent state, rather--simply like going to sleep at night and getting up again in the morning?

And this is promised to us as well-- to the overcomers-- who in faith, like him have no fear of death, because we know that we will be raised.

 

[Mr E]

“To the angel of the church in Sardis write the following:
But you have a few individuals in Sardis who have not stained their clothes, and they will walk with me dressed in white because they are worthy. The one who conquers will be dressed like them in white clothing, and I will never erase his name from the book of life, but will declare his name before my Father and before his angels. The one who has an ear had better hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’
1. Eternal life
2. The crown that is life itself, and unharmed by the second death.
3. Hidden manna and a white stone on which is written a new name that no one knows except the one who receives it.
4. Authority to rule over nations and the morning star.
5. Dressed in white and never have your name erased from the book of life.

Again, white is the color of newness, of cleanliness, righteousness, holiness, and innocence. It's almost always associated with having been washed, and made clean.

The book of life reference is interesting in that it's not that you die, you are judged, and if found worthy-- your name is then written in the book of life. No-- your name is already written in the book. If you were alive, then died, and were then found worthy-- your name remains written in the book and you remain among the living. If found lacking-- THEN your name is erased, you are disposed of in the fire of judgment and your spirit is no more among the living in that heavenly realm.

 

[Victoryinjesus]

Indeed. Since he had the power to lay down his life, and the ability to take it up again-- what fear would he have of death, knowing it isn't any kind of permanent state, rather--simply like going to sleep at night and getting up again in the morning?

And this is promised to us as well-- to the overcomers-- who in faith, like him have no fear of death, because we know that we will be raised.

Questions. We see Jesus Christ asking …pleading…the Father in the garden if the crucifixion can be avoided? I would say he did fear death but what he feared substantially more was there not being Fruit unto God. Just an observation. I’m not sure I can not fear death. But what I fear more is death with a life lived that was empty and in vain. No fruit unto God.

To me that is what takes the sting out of death. That God has given (granted)Freedom (Liberty) to bear Fruit unto God prior to death, made free from sin by the body of Christ, and to not fear being “barren” or “unfruitful”.

Does that make sense? To me death use to be the scariest. But now the scariest is…I know for certain this time is fragile and unpredictable. The scariest of all is: if I don’t know God and all of this is empty and useless and pointless and increases and profits none. In vain. That is terrifying. I do think Jesus wrestled with death, but bowed to “Your Will be done, Father.” Fearing more …not enduring for the Joy set before Him.

 

[Victoryinjesus]

Questions. We see Jesus Christ asking …pleading…the Father in the garden if the crucifixion can be avoided? I would say he did fear death but what he feared substantially more was there not being Fruit unto God. Just an observation. I’m not sure I can not fear death. But what I fear more is death with a life lived that was empty and in vain. No fruit unto God.

To me that is what takes the sting out of death. That God has given (granted)Freedom (Liberty) to bear Fruit unto God prior to death, made free from sin by the body of Christ, and to not fear being “barren” or “unfruitful”.

Does that make sense? To me death use to be the scariest. But now the scariest is…I know for certain this time is fragile and unpredictable. The scariest of all is: if I don’t know God and all of this is empty and useless and pointless and increases and profits none. In vain. That is terrifying. I do think Jesus wrestled with death, but bowed to “Your Will be done, Father.” Fearing more …not enduring for the Joy set before Him.

Also…thinking about this divine design in us to fear death that keeps us out of the ditches. Where people don’t just run around sawing off body parts and clashing into things. Keeps us from shooting ourselves or hanging ourselves, since there is no fear in death. We should want to finish the course set before us, fearing more that hanging ourselves puts an end to opportunities to bring forth Fruit unto God? I get depressed. Doctors sometimes will ask …are you suicidal? I’m depressed yes. Not suicidal. I’m eager for there to be Fruit. If I do something like exiting …I’m not sure there’s been Fruit unto God. Waking for opportunities