What is the most neglected book of the Bible?

[Mattathias]

What you state as fact, can’t be shown as fact.

At best, you infer. Which is what you rail over when Trinitarians do the same.

The will insist (just as you do) that Yahweh is the Father, that Jesus is Yahweh, that both of these are the same, and refer equally to God, and that Jesus is that same God.

“1. The one God. (a) theos is the most frequent designation of God in the NT. Belief in the one, only, and unique God (Matt. 23:9; Rom. 3:30; 1 Cor. 8:4,6; Gal. 3:20; 1 Tim. 2:5; Jas. 2:19) is an established part of Christian tradition. Jesus himself made the fundamental confession of Jud. his own and expressly quoted the Shema (Deut. 6:4-5; see Mk. 12:29-30; cf. Matt. 22:37; Lk. 10:27). This guaranteed continuity between the old and the new covenants. The God whom Christians worship is the God of the fathers (Acts 3:13; 5:30; 22:14), the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Acts 3:13; 7:32; cf. Matt. 22:32; Mk. 12:26; Lk. 20:37), the God of Israel (Matt. 15:31; Lk. 1:68; Acts 13:17), and the God of Jesus Christ (2 Cor. 1:3; Eph. 1:3; 1 Pet. 1:3).”

(New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, Abridged Edition, p. 2:44)

Stated as fact. Shown as fact.

 

[Mattathias]

Not the same.

There is a difference between being just an employee and being a shaliah.

The mailman is an employee, not a shaliah. I was an employee and, sometimes, a shaliah.

Being an employee and being a shaliah aren’t the same.

 

[Mr E]

There is a difference between being just an employee and being a shaliah.

The mailman is an employee, not a shaliah. I was an employee and, sometimes, a shaliah.

Being an employee and being a shaliah aren’t the same.

Here’s the difference. Never once did God tell you He was going to make you as God to anyone.

 

[Mattathias]

Here’s the difference. Never once did God tell you He was going to make you as God to anyone.

You posted the passage of scripture where God - Yahweh - made Moses as God to Pharaoh.

The Governor made me as the Governor on occasion. The Commissioner made me as the Commissioner, on occasion. The Director made me as the Director on occasion. The Branch manager made me as the Branch manager on occasion. The Program manager made me as the Program manager, on occasion, The Unit supervisor made me as the Unit manager, on occasion.

I never held any of those positions. I was their shaliah, on occasion.

 

[Mr E]

You posted the passage of scripture where God - Yahweh - made Moses as God to Pharaoh.

Right. You were an employee. You were employed, not appointed by God to act on His behalf the way Moses was, nor the way Jesus was. It's not the same. There isn't a person on earth that you interacted with that would have ever thought of you as more than an agent of the agency you represented. Whereas, let's say you were an ambassador for the King of England.

You could pronounce yourself as such and act with the King's full authority. No one would mistake you for the King.... you are a shaliah.

That's much different than what Moses and his sidekick did. Moses didn't present himself as an agent of God. He was set up to play God-- it was a facade. He didn't say he was an agent or spokesman-- He said Aaron was his spokesman (prophet) while Moses himself represented himself as God. Not as God's shaliah--- but as God.

 

[Mattathias]

Right. You were an employee. You were employed, not appointed by God to act on His behalf the way Moses was, nor the way Jesus was. It's not the same. There isn't a person on earth that you interacted with that would have ever thought of you as more than an agent of the agency you represented. Whereas, let's say you were an ambassador for the King of England.

You could pronounce yourself as such and act with the King's full authority. No one would mistake you for the King.... you are a shaliah.

That's much different than what Moses and his sidekick did. Moses didn't present himself as an agent of God. He was set up to play God-- it was a facade. He didn't say he was an agent or spokesman-- He said Aaron was his spokesman (prophet) while Moses himself represented himself as God. Not as God's shaliah--- but as God.

I wasn’t employed as a shaliah, I was appointed as a shaliah. I didn’t have the authority to pronounce myself anything. I acted with the full authority of the persons who sent me, and was considered to be those persons who sent me, but was not liable for my words and actions when I was acting in that role. I was held fully liable for my words and actions when I wasn’t serving in that role.

No one mistook me for the persons who sent me. No one mistook Moses for the God who sent him.

 

[Wrangler]

They saw Jesus as Moses-like and both as anointed saviors (messiah figures) with Yahweh as Lord. Much of this has been whittled away by theologians over the ages. From there it was an easy leap to make Jesus actually Yahweh— that is, to say Jesus was God, the way Moses was seen as (a) God by the Egyptians.

Moses was seen as (a) God by the Egyptians? The use of the indefinite article with capital-G is confusing.

 

[Wrangler]

Moses didn't present himself as an agent of God. He was set up to play God-- it was a facade. He didn't say he was an agent or spokesman-- He said Aaron was his spokesman (prophet) while Moses himself represented himself as God. Not as God's shaliah--- but as God.

Huh?

 

[Mr E]

Huh?

Not familiar?

 

[Mattathias]

Arguments from silence don’t get us far.

“And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that would be written.”

(John 21:25)

Jesus was an observant Jew. His religion was Judaism. That we know from what is written in scripture about him.

 

[Wrangler]

Not familiar?

A Bible verse would help me become familiar.

 

[Mr E]

A Bible verse would help me become familiar.

I was referring to the story that Jude was referring to-- from Exodus.

So the Yahweh said to Moses, “See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet. You are to speak everything I command you, and your brother Aaron is to tell Pharaoh that he must release the Israelites from his land.