What Do I Mean By Legalist

[Grace Accepted]

antiauthoritarian and counter establishment culture informs many narratives, including Christian narratives.
The hippie in me is not an outward show... but an inward analysis vociferated outwards about controlling secular/other elites.
Let the truth set you free. How great is that: and some would think it was from the hippie handbook! Nay!
Give me someone who plays guitar, a group of brothers and sisters and a campfire: and there you will hear and see the liberated voices joining in praise :0 oh how subjective a label seems these days!
Hey, thanks for being you... you know I do not write this out of questioning, only to say how varied a culture connotes a word or term.
Grace and peace

Your speaking of the dressings. @Comingfrom was in the scene. There should be no implied insult in being a hippie, it is simply what one either was or is.

Is there anything wrong in being a hippie?

 

[Comingfrom]

I only read the one you posted. Are you having difficulty following. You said you had been raptured by the Lord. I said that was not what the rapture meant in scripture and to prove you self you gave me a scripture that is about not trusting in riches because they fly away like eagles. You mainly try to turn every thing I say back of me. Are you just amusing yourself here at the expense of others?

Don't you want to go the heaven?
It is talking about the riches we have from God, our treasures we laid up in heaven.

You think people who trusted in worldly riches fly to heaven?
Maybe they think that, when in their Lear Jet, but Lear Jets are not eagles' wings.

You should do the search, and see them all.
I have only posted three of them so far.
Here is another one for you. I am happy to do the labour for you.

But they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength;
they shall mount up with wings as eagles;
they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
Isaiah 40:30

It will actually tell you in the book of Romans. It was the plan of God to redeem a people for Himself. Sin cannot dwell with Him, and all men sin. The penalty for sin He pronounced as death. This is both physical death (we were not created to die and would not have if Adam had not sinned against God and sin come to all men through Him. In other words all will sin, it is in our nature to follow our own desires and wants even if they are opposed to the perfect holiness of God. All will have to face the wrath against God for their sin. And that death is eternal separation from God, our Creator. God is perfectly just. In order for any to dwell with Him, somehow that sin had to be punished without destroying the sinner. God sent His Son Jesus in the likeness of men to do that. Jesus had to be like us in order for the payment He made to be valid, and He had to be completely perfectly without ever having sinned. He sacrificed Himself after full obedience to all the commands of God, in letter and spirit, as our substitute. His shed blood is the blood of the sacrifice. Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sin. He took the death, and the wrath of God in our place. Since He was without sin, death had no hold on Him, and He was raised to life. In this He defeated the power of sin to condemn the one who believes because He purchased forgiveness for them. Now instead of justice from God, they receive mercy, forgiveness and eternal life with God. So it is said that the shedding of His blood made atonement. When one believes this truth put forth in scripture, they are placed in union with Christ (John 17). God sees them through the righteousness of Christ that is imputed to them, (they are counted as righteous by virtue of being in Christ.) The union is made through faith. It is His plan and His ordinance. It is eternal. Just as valid and effective today as it was 2000 years ago. I @ you on a thread on Romans. Follow it through, maybe you will see it. I pray you will.

I look at this blob of leaven, and think wow.
Couldn't you have just broke from Jesus' body the appropriate wafer, and offer that to me.
But no you can't, because Jesus said nothing like any of that, the way you put it.

And the story you tell is one that Christians have told me time and time again.
And because of that, "Jesus died for us" was the first bullock I ever brought to the Lord.

It is the lead ox in your herd, and of most Christians' herd of spirits, isn't it,
and for that reason I brought it to Him, to know if it was true.
Because I had no way of knowing (at that time) if Jesus died for me or not.

And it had always sounded weird to me, when people declared "Jesus is God" and "He died for me".
And I would ask, "Your God is dead for you?"
Then they'd stammer and stutter, and their tongue fall upon them, or they would step on it.

And finally, you pray God that I will believe you, and "see" as you do.
Like Adam and Eve, whose eyes were opened, and they could see, and made themselves figleaf aprons.

What if it is God's will that we do not keep the ordinances of mainstream Christianity?
Do you forget even the Lord's prayer?

Pray that His kingdom come, and His will be done.

It simply refers to a personal union with Him. The life is in the blood. There is no life, no salvation without this union through faith. Earlier in John 6 Jesus had made clear that He is the bread of life.

Then why are you asking me eat Paul's bread mixed with the bread of mainstream Christianity?

It is a way of expressing how serious sin is and how deep our need. It not only must come out of our actions, but out of our desires and out of our heart. Only the Holy Spirit can put to death the sins in us, those sinful desires that plague us, and the Holy Spirit only dwells in those who are in union with Christ. And even then, it is never complete in this part of our life, and it is a process---a marathon not a sprint. And we also have responsibility in this process, to hear His commands given as imperatives for the child of God in the epistles, take our failures before Him, repent (sorrow over having offended God) and listen to Him---His written word. This is a marvelous thing He does while at the same time never condemning us for our shortcomings. Correct? Yes. Discipline if necessary? Yes. Like any good father would.

Thanks, but every Christian gives me a different answer to this one.

And I found a set of instructions in God's word for cleaning myself of the plague. Its in Leviticus 13.
Took me a bit to understand it, because I could find none that know the law, who could explain it to me.
But with the help from Jesus, I was able to understand and do it.

Don't do your good deeds before men for praise, but from a sincere heart to please God.

Yes.
But my left hand knows what my right hand is doing,
even if the person I helped doesn't know it was me that done that good deed for them.
If a hand can even know.

I don't know what was exactly said or what church or denomination. But the only thing a person needs to do to come to Jesus if trust in who He is and what He has done---which I said at the beginning of this post. Ask God for mercy. Ask God to save you.

So I was continually being told, and Jesus wasn't coming.
And to be truthful, I couldn't believe He was coming to most of those that said they go to Him.
In fact, they mostly tell me they go to the foot of His cross.

And you have never been to my church. They aren't all the same.

I probably did, unless it is newer denomination that don't have branches in Australia yet.

The best of all the Christian Churches I found was The Society of Friends, which are the Quakers.
Their Sunday communions were quite different from all the others, and interesting.
But still, not how I would worship God, or spend my Sundays. (Do love George Fox's autobiography)

Catch you soon. I have to out for while.
It's great talking with you.

 

[Comingfrom]

This is an easy task when you don't really keep it in the first place.

Keep what, GA?

Now continue your bravery in answering questions. How much of the bible is literal?

OK.
Since you are the brave one who can answer them for me.

1. Why was the Lord talking about "the blood of My sacrifice" way back in Moses' day?

2. And why was He warning Moses about leavened bread with His blood,
when it was long before there were any Pharisees with their Pharisee doctrines?

3. And what is "the fat" of His sacrifice?

4. And what does the Lord mean by it won't remain until the morning?

5. And how can His blood even be offered?
Do you Christians offer the blood of His sacrifice?

The last question is of particular interest,
since I am often given stories, beliefs, about the blood of His sacrifice.

I'll even post the saying for you again, and another (because He says it twice, but slightly different the second time)
so you don't have to go back and look for it, in case you do not remember it.

Thou shalt not offer the blood of My sacrifice with leavened bread;
neither shall the fat of My sacrifice remain until the morning.
Exodus 23:18

Thou shalt not offer the blood of My sacrifice with leaven;
neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning.
Exodus 34:25

 

[Comingfrom]

LB, you need to spend more time here. This place is already littered with tomatoes. Most people come to forums with tomatoes. It is why they are called forums. @Comingfrom is no shrinking violet and I doubt this fazes him a bit. Perhaps you could view this forum as a forum of therapeutic confrontation. Or an intervention where we are all intervening with each other.

Its called judgment, Grace.
The Lord speaks about it extensively throughout the scripture.
The Lord loves judgment.
Remember the song He sang to His wellbeloved?
He looked for judgment, but behold oppression.
And these He called "wild grapes".

It was @Comingfrom who first brought up his drug use a while ago. He said, "It Helped me break the back [of] my mental conditioning by this society, that I not feel obliged to conform to the world."

I have to throw the disbelievers a life raft.
But I doubt you will understand what that means.

There are many different and interesting people here with many differing viewpoints these viewpoints are firmly attached to the egos of each of us so there is bound to be spill over into ad hominem material. As long as it remains a mild roar, it is what keeps the wheels turning here.

We could try an experiment and make a section on this forum for serious theological discussion with strict rules against flaming no matter how different each person's view are. We could run a very tight ship there and have a sticky that outlines expected behaviour and then see how that grows in comparison with the other forums on this sight.

Control freak.

You get that on just about every other Christian forum,
now you say you want it here where you are free to speak, even to call me addicted (what do you know?),
and many others confrontational tomato throwers, Legalists, and whatever else springs to your mind in the moment.

I wouldn't want you banned or your tomatoes edited.
You better Ketchup.

 

[L.B.]

I have spoken of engaging ideas. I have spoken of challenging ideas.
Wrestle a bone from a chewing sentient: it will turn against you!
We need a centre for engagement: a soap box where all can stand... not to hurl abuse but to challenge.
I will end my posts on this thread now.
We argue here to no certain end: perhaps that is so... a friend once said to me this is favella theology. I now know that is a slight on everyday theology. Long may we mingle and sharpen, not blunt.
Blessings all.

 

[Grace Accepted]

Its called judgment, Grace.
The Lord speaks about it extensively throughout the scripture.
The Lord loves judgment.
Remember the song He sang to His wellbeloved?
He looked for judgment, but behold oppression.
And these He called "wild grapes".


I have to throw the disbelievers a life raft.
But I doubt you will understand what that means.


Control freak.

You get that on just about every other Christian forum,
now you say you want it here where you are free to speak, even to call me addicted (what do you know?),
and many others confrontational tomato throwers, Legalists, and whatever else springs to your mind in the moment.

I wouldn't want you banned or your tomatoes edited.
You better Ketchup.

Well, ComingFrom, this is a pretty kettle of fish. You have made another very false claim. There is no place on this forum where I called you addicted or called you an addict or even hinted that you were addicted to anything. You have made a false accusation.

Secondly, if we conducted this experiment, no one would be forced to go to this forum and it would be an open discussion, The clamps would be on flaming and ad hominem attacks.

 

[Comingfrom]

If you have not seen my meanings, you have not been paying attention. I am fed of the Lord by His word. You evidently depend entirely upon experiences and base all your theology on them. The Bible is God revealing Himself to mankind.

We were talking about His feasts, His sabbaths, His passover, making offerings.
And you were giving me mainstream Christian doctrines and interpretations of certain sayings from Paul.

I didn't get your meanings, and interpretations for those things in His law, did I?
I know you told me I'm not hearing, I must of missed it again. Damn.

Hey we all have had bad experiences in churches and encountered flawed and phony people. But what were you doing. Sitting there quietly judging everyone.

None of them were bad experiences.
Very educational in fact.

Here is an interesting one for your.
I was wandering around in the CBD (central business district) of the big city, and praying to the Lord as went.
I was looking at all the tall skyscrapers, and Lord was telling me how the biggest religions of man have the biggest idols,
and that tall buildings are icons of what man worshipped the most. Commmerce.
But suddenly, there was this old church, still tucked away in and surrounded by all the skyscrapers.
And it looked so tiny. Though it was actually a big church, compared to most churches.
It was an Anglican church.
And it started me thinking, this is the icon for God worship, swamped by all the icons of Commerce.
And all the people milling about, going to work or shopping, going into skyscrapers, and not even noticing the church.
Servants of Commerce. Working to get money, and shopping.
Nobody was going in or out of the church, it was 8 am on a week morning. Lots of people going to work.
But behold, "Eucharist held at 8 am every morning", said the sign out the front,
and I looked and the gate was open and the front door was open.
Must be so believing worker can partake before their day at work.
And I'm just in time, think I, and in I walk.

And the proceedings were just about to begin.
There was a Priest in his robes standing behind a little table with the wine and wafers,
and there were three believers there.
They were surprised to see me, and glad, and they welcomed me in.
And then it went somber, and suddenly a bell tinkled, like they do in the Hare Krishnas.
It surprised me and I looked towards the sound
and there was a young priest, or priest assistant, also in robes, but standing by the far wall with his little tinkle bell.
Then the priest began to chant his words or prayer, and after he had said all that,
he took the plate of wafers and walk around his table to give the first believer one wafer,
then the second believer, and the third, and then me, and then he turned his back to me to walk back to his table.
I was stunned with shock.
The priest had embroidered on the back of his robe, a huge gothic letter "M".
I was shocked, but I maintained my composure and silence. More tinkle bells.
The priest picked up the glass cup, it was already half full. and walked around as before giving us each a sip of the cup (no covid back then).
It was horribly strong. A very bitter claret.
After my sip the cup was still at least a third full, and the priest turned his back to me again to go back to place,
but on his way, he hunched and he downed that glass, eyed the bottle standing on the table,
before taking the two more steps it took to get there, and sober himself up again.
Again I was shocked.
I wondered if he though we couldn't see him.
Again I just kept my silence and observed.
More tinkle bells, and more words. We gave thanks all to each other, and I left.

The Lord was with me already, I was on a sabbath feast at that time, and He led me there, to witness that.
Not just the Eucharist event, but the whole recent history of the development of man, and the rise of "corporate capitalism"
I think that's what they call it. And the demise of God worship.

And I thank God for all you guys here.
Maybe I disagree with a lot of you on a lot of things, please do not take offense.
I am so thankful for you. You are a rare breed.
And we have the Lord Jesus in common.

They shouldn't be doing that and because some do doesn't mean all do. I know you will hate this, but you would have better chances visitying a reformed church. Some of them have slipped off the rails too, it is hard to keep the world out, but one that hasn't will systematically teach scriptures and would probably answer your questions. One that holds to to reformed standards has it entire focus on God and feeding the sheep with His word. Not on the things of the world.

One of the worst was Assemblies of God.
Another church I went to, I can't remember the denomination now,
a grey pall of fear materialized above us as soon as the Priest began to preach, just hanging in the air.
That freaked me out. He was areal repent or die preacher, and his flock was paralyzed with fear, well and truly.
I was baptized in the spirit by a tongues speaking church, and my tongue wouldn't gibberish,
and they prayed and they groaned over me,and called more to pray and groan over me, but I just couldn't do. My tongue wouldn't wag.
But when I left there and was walking down the the road, some ten minutes later, my tongue suddenly started speaking gibberish, all by itself,
and it felt fine, I felt good. I can do it anytime now (but I don't). Anybody can.
But I also understand why it feels good to do it. It isn't different to praying rosary beads, or chanting mantra.
It takes one off their worldly thoughts and familiar spirits for a while. And most people need that.
No, actually. We all need that.
And these practices can be a good thing.
Anything that helps us onto the spiritual path, God's spiritual path of course.

The Buddhist practice mindfulness, which is observing our thoughts. Just observing them.
And Jesus said take no thought, and take not thought for raiment.
I thought, Take them? Where from?
They are my thoughts, aren't they. Where would we be taking them from?
I'm doing the thinking. But then who am I thinking to? Me? That's talking to yourself, a sign of madness. Isn't it?

Then I read Paul saying, bring every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ.
When I first read that , I thought, What! EVERY thought. Impossible!!
But OK Lord, I'll try, if you say so.
But You gotta help me with this one.

We are to keep the commandments of God other than those that were fulfilled in Jesus because now we have Him. You are just confusing two things as though they were the same thing.

How do you know which ones He fulfilled?

And did He not fulfill even the least commandments?
That would leave you now with none!

Does He have to break a commandment before you put it on your list of to do?

How do you know they are vain repetitions? I have no idea what you are referring to, Never encountered it except perhaps in tongue speaking churches---and I disagree with that.

How do I know? Because they were muttering and mumbling, and I could hear them.
In fact, the priest was encouraging them, saying pray louder, so the Lord can hear you.
It was difficult for me to restrain myself from laughing, when he started saying that.
And they prayed, Thank you Jesus, thank you Lord, over and over, but with petitions in between.
I could hear, Aunty has cancer can you please heal her, thank you Lord, praise you Lord,
and need a new car because this one is getting old and breaking down and can't afford a new one, thank you Lord, praise you Lord,
and various such things. Some of them, yes even my brother who is a Pastor of a Baptist Church, while on the phone to me,
Lord, will you make comingfrom "see" and believe, thank you Lord, praise you Lord.

Now you are being both legalistic and judgmental.

What?
You have got to kidding. But I don't think are.

Walk, watch and pray, were the first commandments I learned, and could do, for Jesus.
(And there were two others, behold the fowls of the air, and hear where the wind lists.)

I did seek and I found that was about all I could honestly actually do, out of all His word,
when I turned me to repent.

I do have a car, but if the weather is fine, and I don't have a load, or too far to go, I choose to walk.
And I walk for Jesus.

The people answered Him, We have heard out of the law that Christ abideth for ever:
and how sayest thou, The Son of man must be lifted up? who is this Son of man?
Then Jesus said unto them,
Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you:
for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth.
While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light.
John 12:34-36

~~~~``
I am happy today. Came into some money, Bitcoin is cheap and starting to pump,
my son and I shopped without having to cut back on this and that, for a change, and I am celebrating.
So I'm chatty and tell you some of my stories.
And because I like you, and you have been kind to me.

Maybe I can put a human face on me.

 

[Grace Accepted]

Keep what, GA?

That is the $64,000 question that frankly no one on this forum knows.

OK.
Since you are the brave one who can answer them for me.

1. Why was the Lord talking about "the blood of My sacrifice" way back in Moses' day?

Every sacrifice was given to God, they were his. When one presented their sacrifice to him, they were not to mix the blood of the animal being sacrificed with anything containing yeast or a fermenting agent commonly called leaven. The Hebrew word "zebach" from which "my sacrifice" is translated could just as easily be translated as "a sacrifice" and in fact, is thusly translated in several versions of the bible.

2. And why was He warning Moses about leavened bread with His blood,
when it was long before there were any Pharisees with their Pharisee doctrines?

Because leven in this case represented deceptive doctrines and teachings and how just a small bit can grow in a person. There was a person who came to the church in Galatia preaching the law for salvation, much like you are doing. Paul wrote to this church about the situation, this about him. "You (the church) were running so well. Who has obstructed you from obeying the truth? Such persuasion does not come from the One who calls you. A little leaven works through the whole batch of dough. I am confident in the Lord that you will take no other view. The one who is troubling you will bear the judgment, whoever he may be.

Paul opened this letter by writing: I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!

3. And what is "the fat" of His sacrifice?

The fat in this case represents sin in our lives, as it was insidiously wrapped around the internal organs of the animal and had to be meticulously removed my the priest. This process represented what happens after on is saved by Christ and the process of being made holy begins.

4. And what does the Lord mean by it won't remain until the morning?

When he said of sacrifices don't let any of it remain until morning and since the sacrifice represented Christ, It was to be all ate up; a whole Christ is to be received and fed upon by faith. That is we must allow all of Christ in us and not just the parts that don't offend us.

5. And how can His blood even be offered?

It was offered once for all on the cross. We can now appropriate it by accepting it as our own and receiving a complete remission of sin. (1 Peter 3:18)

Do you Christians offer the blood of His sacrifice?

We appropriate it by accepting the cleansing power it has released to imputing our sins upon Him as the Hebrews did on their lamb before it was slaughtered.

The blood was spilled on Calvary but its power will emanate through eternal ages.

Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; 1 Peter 3:18

The last question is of particular interest,
since I am often given stories, beliefs, about the blood of His sacrifice.

I'll even post the saying for you again, and another (because He says it twice, but slightly different the second time)
so you don't have to go back and look for it, in case you do not remember it.

Thou shalt not offer the blood of My sacrifice with leavened bread;
neither shall the fat of My sacrifice remain until the morning.
Exodus 23:18

Thou shalt not offer the blood of My sacrifice with leaven;
neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning.
Exodus 34:25

Now answer my question. How much of the bible is literal?

 

[meshak]

And I thank God for all you guys here.
Maybe I disagree with a lot of you on a lot of things, please do not take offense.
I am so thankful for you. You are a rare breed.
And we have the Lord Jesus in common.

This is so vain comment.

You really believe you are doing a meaningful chat.

You guys can go on this forever without anyone agreeing on anything you say.
Just amazing.

Ok, this is a hyperbole expression.

Becasue I know someone always comes after me by saying "liar" when I use the hyperbole expression.

God says "you worship me with lips but your heart is far from Me."

This kind of thread applies this verse.

@Studyman

 

[Comingfrom]

I think it would be fair to say that @Comingfrom is a spiritual hippie who is spiritually counter culture to Christianity. Perhaps he is still even a counter culture hippie.

What say you @Comingfrom do you still identify as a hippie? Or do you just retain some aspects of it?

Hippies have the last laugh, because they were right.

God's way is not just "Love",
it is "Love Peace and Brown Rice"
If you leave out the unleavened bread (the brown rice) you can love all you like, but you will still never have peace.

And Jesus is Peace, with the capital p.
That's why they killed John, because he sang, Let there be Peace.

I was waking up to the wider world when the Beatles where singing Let it Be and Hey Jude,
on my little 16 transistor radio.
Just caught the end of the hippy era.
So yes, as we tend to classify people, you might call me an aged hippy Christian.

You will probably plat that with a tomato saying, not Christian.
But then, that depends how one defines Christian.
I try to follow Jesus best I can.


Peace I leave with you, My peace I give unto you:
not as the world giveth, give I unto you.
Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
John 14:27

 

[Comingfrom]

Well, ComingFrom, this is a pretty kettle of fish. You have made another very false claim. There is no place on this forum where I called you addicted or called you an addict or even hinted that you were addicted to anything. You have made a false accusation.

But you could, and somebody did.
And isn't it good that we all can say our minds?

Secondly, if we conducted this experiment, no one would be forced to go to this forum and it would be an open discussion, The clamps would be on flaming and ad hominem attacks.

Like when one calls others Legalists.
But then, they also hold the clamps, to say what is legal to post there and what is not,
by determining who is attacking and what constitutes an attack.
Right?

 

[meshak]

But you could, and somebody did.
And isn't it good that we all can say our minds?


Like when one calls others Legalists.
But then, they also hold the clamps, to say what is legal to post there and what is not,
by determining who is attacking and what constitutes an attack.
Right?

I believe I did.

I assessed you by the overall witnessing of your claims and the tactics.

I pointed out so many of your misuse of scripture and you rejected and denied them all.

BTW, I am a legalist by trins.

And claim faithfulness to God and Jesus is the way to salvation the same thing you have been preaching.