What Are You Trusting In?

[meshak]

haha!
You step into it also, Meshak.
You will bicker with people and make accusations toward them several times before you get tired of it, and then you cry foul.

And of course you can't put a mod on ignore.
You won't find hardly any site at all that lets you do that.
Mods have to have access to every post and be able to converse with every member.

I always put on ignor who just want to bicker.

But I cannot put you on ignor.

I put Arial on ignore because she was doing the same thing as you did.

Your vengeful behavior is becoming.

 

[meshak]

haha!
You step into it also, Meshak.
You will bicker with people and make accusations toward them several times before you get tired of it, and then you cry foul.

And of course you can't put a mod on ignore.
You won't find hardly any site at all that lets you do that.
Mods have to have access to every post and be able to converse with every member.

Ok, show me where I bicker with anyone.

I did with you because you were personally attacking me.

My threads and comments are not personal.

 

[Sissy]

Ok, show me where I bicker with anyone.

I did with you because you were personally attacking me.

My threads and comments are not personal.

Playing the poor little mistreated martyr is what you do best.

 

[Sissy]

I always put on ignor who just want to bicker.

But I cannot put you on ignor.

I put Arial on ignore because she was doing the same thing as you did.

Your vengeful behavior is becoming.

Common sense would tell you that you can ignore someone without clicking the ignore button.
But that would take some self-control.

 

[meshak]

Playing the poor little mistreated martyr is what you do best.

You see, this is what I mean.

Your vengeful behavior is so juvenile.

It is vengeful because what you are doing is a personal attack.

My comments are not personal.

It is about the overall observation of my conviction.

And trins are making up their own theology to combat the True gospel against God and Jesus.

And no one making it clear because they will be silenced by banning.

It is the fact, not complaining at all.

 

[meshak]

Common sense would tell you that you can ignore someone without clicking the ignore button.
But that would take some self-control.

So lame for justifying your vengeful behavior.

 

[meshak]

@Comingfrom,

What did she say so loving?

You show your true color with how you react to attacking comments.

 

[Arial]

We still have two distinct things to choose from in the NT: Believe in Jesus Christ or don't believe in Jesus Christ and that choice is freely made. Same as promised in the OT, we choose Christ, we are blessed with eternal life, if not, we are cursed - wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord.

In the old covenant, the choice was about law. Covenant law. Keep it or not. It gave no one eternal life or changed a heart or conscience. It did nothing to change the sin nature of man. In the new, because of Jesus defeating, (removing the condemning power of sin) this enemy by meeting its just punishment for the one who would believe, the choice to be made is not one of law, but one of faith. And no one is denying that it is a choice. What they are saying is, that since something in man's nature has to change towards God (the natural enmity) it is not something man can willingly do. He can't will a different nature. He can't will His enmity towards God to go away. Man is like this because He was born in Adam. Therefore he has to be reborn in Christ, something only God can do, for man cannot will a new birth into existence simply by choosing to. It is done in a person by the Holy Spirit, who is an entity, not a power or force, though He has power. To say that man has to will a new birth before the spirit (as you call Him) will give it to him, makes no sense at all. Being born in Christ is just as real and tangible as being born in Adam.

The will is in the mind where thoughts originate and decisions are made. Sinful desires don't always win - even for those who aren't born again - people willingly make changes in their lives everyday

That is moving the subject off target.

John 3 - being born of the Spirit is in relationship to our belief (which is a decision we make) in the only begotten Son of God, Jesus Christ (John 3:16) which places us in union with Christ; "in Christ" - the new creation God accomplishes within us because of our belief in His Son, i.e. being born of the Spirit - the righteousness of God through faith [trust/belief] in Jesus Christ for all who believe.

You have the cart before the horse from a logical view. But then you also deny the deity of Christ and the Holy Spirit.

 

[Arial]

haha!
You step into it also, Meshak.
You will bicker with people and make accusations toward them several times before you get tired of it, and then you cry foul.

And of course you can't put a mod on ignore.
You won't find hardly any site at all that lets you do that.
Mods have to have access to every post and be able to converse with every member.

Maybe you should know what an issue is before you go around snickering at people.

I am not talking about insulting criticism. I am talking about. "If you are a Calvinist you are not saved." "You worship Calvin." Calvin is your God" "You do not have the Holy Spirit." "You are not saved." "You don't believe in justification by faith alone." "You don't trust in Christ." "you put your faith in predestination.". Are you saying that is not against the rules? Because some people have been banned for doing it and quickly. I think you just jumped the gun in posting these things to me without knowing what was really going on.

 

[Arial]

Let this thread be a witness as to why the rule exists at all.
We are lenient until it becomes a problem that excessively deviates from the theology point made.

Well said and confirmed by the naturally occurring evidence on the thread.
Hope it now returns back to theological business: the yays, nays, and still not sures!

Know what the issue is. It should have been spotted and stopped by staff, long, long ago. When things like this are said of a child of God, and the person knows they are a child of God from all that has been said, and still says these types of things simply because he hates their theology, it is an affront to God. Forget about it insulting me. Someone ought to care about God, and also the danger the person doing it puts themselves in.

I am not talking about insulting criticism. I am talking about. "If you are a Calvinist you are not saved." "You worship Calvin." Calvin is your God" "You do not have the Holy Spirit." "You are not saved." "You don't believe in justification by faith alone." "You don't trust in Christ." "you put your faith in predestination.". Are you saying that is not against the rules? Because some people have been banned for doing it and quickly. I think you just jumped the gun in posting these things to me without knowing what was really going on.

If need be I will go through all his posts and gather them for staff.

 

[patience]

In the old covenant, the choice was about law. Covenant law. Keep it or not. It gave no one eternal life or changed a heart or conscience. It did nothing to change the sin nature of man. In the new, because of Jesus defeating, (removing the condemning power of sin) this enemy by meeting its just punishment for the one who would believe, the choice to be made is not one of law, but one of faith. And no one is denying that it is a choice. What they are saying is, that since something in man's nature has to change towards God (the natural enmity) it is not something man can willingly do. He can't will a different nature. He can't will His enmity towards God to go away. Man is like this because He was born in Adam. Therefore he has to be reborn in Christ, something only God can do, for man cannot will a new birth into existence simply by choosing to. It is done in a person by the Holy Spirit, who is an entity, not a power or force, though He has power. To say that man has to will a new birth before the spirit (as you call Him) will give it to him, makes no sense at all. Being born in Christ is just as real and tangible as being born in Adam.

In the new covenant, the choice is about faith [belief/trust] in Jesus being the Messiah or not. In the new covenant, our desires change wherein we abhor evil (which I am sure applied to many OT believers also). What changed in man was a "new creation in Christ" but it did not change the sin nature inherently in us or else there wouldn't be admonitions in the new covenant to put to death the deeds of the flesh [Rom. 8:13], be not conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewing of your mind [Rom.12:2], put off your old self [Eph. 4:22; Col. 3:9] and put on the new self [Eph. 4:24; Col. 3:10]; all something we make the choice to do.

I agree that the new birth is something only God, aka the Holy Spirit, does [not man willing a new birth] - Salvation is dependent upon one's belief [faith] in God's Son. They relate to each other - How do we obtain eternal life - entrance into the Kingdom of God? By being born again of the Spirit; aka whosoever believes in God's Son receives eternal life - this goes hand in hand.

That is moving the subject off target.

It was in direct response to what you had said.

You have the cart before the horse from a logical view.

You have the cart before the horse from a logical view.

How does one obtain eternal life aka enter the Kingdom of God? by being born again of the Spirit through faith/belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God.
For by grace you have been saved through faith [belief in Jesus as the Messiah]. This is not of your own doing [the new birth, aka salvation]; it is the gift of God. . . . . The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

But then you also deny the deity of Christ and the Holy Spirit.

That is moving the subject off target.

 

[Arial]

What changed in man was a "new creation in Christ" but it did not change the sin nature inherently in us

I did not say the new birth changed our nature. This is what I said.

In the new, because of Jesus defeating, (removing the condemning power of sin) this enemy by meeting its just punishment for the one who would believe, the choice to be made is not one of law, but one of faith.

And then I said this.

And no one is denying that it is a choice. What they are saying is, that since something in man's nature has to change towards God (the natural enmity) it is not something man can willingly do. He can't will a different nature. He can't will His enmity towards God to go away. Man is like this because He was born in Adam. Therefore he has to be reborn in Christ, something only God can do, for man cannot will a new birth into existence simply by choosing to. It is done in a person by the Holy Spirit, who is an entity, not a power or force, though He has power. To say that man has to will a new birth before the spirit (as you call Him) will give it to him, makes no sense at all. Being born in Christ is just as real and tangible as being born in Adam.

I agree that the new birth is something only God, aka the Holy Spirit, does [not man willing a new birth] - Salvation is dependent upon one's belief [faith] in God's Son. They relate to each other - How do we obtain eternal life - entrance into the Kingdom of God? By being born again of the Spirit; aka whosoever believes in God's Son receives eternal life - this goes hand in hand.

You say that only God can give the new birth, but you say we have to do something in order for God to do that. Decide to believe. Something which I have shown above our nature will not do, because it loves sin, and is in bondage to it through Adam. Those chains have to be broken first. God has to do that first. Then we are free to willingly choose God, not because our actual nature has been changed, but because Jesus has destroyed its power over us, that holds us in bondage to that nature. This is the new birth that must take place, and then the faith that is necessary is given. This plays out in real time in that when we hear the gospel, we believe it. When is there any other time in your life, other than it is your claim that it is so in deciding to believe, have you ever believed anything that is true simply because you decided to? You either believe a truth or you don't. You may arrive at that place over time, and you may arrive at it through looking and hearing and reading over time; by looking for viable reasons to believe something. But the actual belief is not a decision. And whose to say that all that looking and seeking, isn't the working of the Spirit towards the new birth? Conversely, we can easily by our very nature, choose to believe what is not true.

It was in direct response to what you had said.

Yes, but it was equating the natural with the spiritual and they only have similarities, but do not actually apply to one choosing the spiritual.

You have the cart before the horse from a logical view.

How does one obtain eternal life aka enter the Kingdom of God? by being born again of the Spirit through faith/belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God.
For by grace you have been saved through faith [belief in Jesus as the Messiah]. This is not of your own doing [the new birth, aka salvation]; it is the gift of God. . . . . The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

We must be born again to even be receptive to the faith. Faith doesn't cause the new birth, it is the result of it.

That is moving the subject off target.

It is saying what is the point of two people coming from entirely different starting points, trying to get the other to see through their lens. The color of the lens will always be in the way of seeing.