What Are You Trusting In?

[patience]

I did not say the new birth changed our nature. This is what I said.

And then I said this.

You say that only God can give the new birth, but you say we have to do something in order for God to do that. Decide to believe. Something which I have shown above our nature will not do, because it loves sin, and is in bondage to it through Adam. Those chains have to be broken first. God has to do that first. Then we are free to willingly choose God, not because our actual nature has been changed, but because Jesus has destroyed its power over us, that holds us in bondage to that nature. This is the new birth that must take place, and then the faith that is necessary is given. This plays out in real time in that when we hear the gospel, we believe it. When is there any other time in your life, other than it is your claim that it is so in deciding to believe, have you ever believed anything that is true simply because you decided to? You either believe a truth or you don't. You may arrive at that place over time, and you may arrive at it through looking and hearing and reading over time; by looking for viable reasons to believe something. But the actual belief is not a decision. And whose to say that all that looking and seeking, isn't the working of the Spirit towards the new birth? Conversely, we can easily by our very nature, choose to believe what is not true.

Yes, God is the only one who gives the new birth . . . the new birth is given only to those who believe in God's Son.
Yes, Jesus destroyed the "judgement" due to us - death not our sin nature because sin still has power over us which is why we are admonished by God to do all the things I listed previously - Rom. 8:13; Rom. 12:2; Eph. 4:22, 24; Col. 3:9, 10. It is the "judgement" of death that is broken - The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. The "chains" are still there just as Paul said - "For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep doing." We all deal with this - For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.

Right, faith [belief] comes from hearing and hearing from the word of God, aka the Holy Spirit. I hear the word mentally - it reaches my heart and I believe, trust in, have confidence in what I have heard - is that God working through his word so that faith comes? I haven't ever denied that because I do believe that is how the Father draws us to His Son but the point is I can still make the decision to reject what I have heard or make the decision to believe it. If I reject what I have heard the judgement of death is still upon me but if I choose to believe in His Son, then I gain entrance into the Kingdom of God; eternal life to whoever believes, aka born again of the Spirit.

Yes, but it was equating the natural with the spiritual and they only have similarities, but do not actually apply to one choosing the spiritual.

We must be born again to even be receptive to the faith. Faith doesn't cause the new birth, it is the result of it.

I disagree.

It is saying what is the point of two people coming from entirely different starting points, trying to get the other to see through their lens. The color of the lens will always be in the way of seeing.

Each just stating their point of view as to their respective understanding of what is written.

 

[Arial]

Yes, God is the only one who gives the new birth . . . the new birth is given only to those who believe in God's Son.
Yes, Jesus destroyed the "judgement" due to us - death not our sin nature because sin still has power over us which is why we are admonished by God to do all the things I listed previously - Rom. 8:13; Rom. 12:2; Eph. 4:22, 24; Col. 3:9, 10. It is the "judgement" of death that is broken - The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. The "chains" are still there just as Paul said - "For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep doing." We all deal with this - For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.

Right, faith [belief] comes from hearing and hearing from the word of God, aka the Holy Spirit. I hear the word mentally - it reaches my heart and I believe, trust in, have confidence in what I have heard - is that God working through his word so that faith comes? I haven't ever denied that because I do believe that is how the Father draws us to His Son but the point is I can still make the decision to reject what I have heard or make the decision to believe it. If I reject what I have heard the judgement of death is still upon me but if I choose to believe in His Son, then I gain entrance into the Kingdom of God; eternal life to whoever believes, aka born again of the Spirit.

I disagree.

Each just stating their point of view as to their respective understanding of what is written.

I disagree with your interpretations. Have a great day.

 

[shroom]

Decide to believe. Something which I have shown above our nature will not do, because it loves sin, and is in bondage to it through Adam. Those chains have to be broken first. God has to do that first. Then we are free to willingly choose God

This ^^^ is Calvinism, and is not the truth. Anyone is free to willingly choose God.

This is the new birth that must take place, and then the faith that is necessary is given.

No. People have to have faith, they have to decide to believe the gospel, and THEN the new birth is given.

We must be born again to even be receptive to the faith. Faith doesn't cause the new birth, it is the result of it.

Absolutely not true, Arial.

 

[Sissy]

So lame for justifying your vengeful behavior.

So lame of you justifying that you don't have a clue.

 

[Arial]

This ^^^ is Calvinism, and is not the truth. Anyone is free to willingly choose God.

It may be Calvinism but for some reason you think that makes it untrue. It doesn't.

No. People have to have faith, they have to decide to believe the gospel, and THEN the new birth is given.

You have said that repeatedly, It is just as untrue this time as it was every other time. Did you decide to believe 2+2=4, or did you simply believe it? Is your deciding what makes something true?

Absolutely not true, Arial.

Absolutely true, Shroom.

 

[shroom]

It may be Calvinism but for some reason you think that makes it untrue. It doesn't.

It's not true because it's not true, regardless of what label is put on it.

You have said that repeatedly, It is just as untrue this time as it was every other time.

It is true and one day you'll know.

Did you decide to believe 2+2=4, or did you simply believe it? Is your deciding what makes something true?

No. My deciding does not make something true. But my deciding to believe the gospel is what enabled me to become born again. You too, whether you know it or not.

Absolutely true, Shroom.

One day you'll know otherwise.

 

[Arial]

It's not true because it's not true, regardless of what label is put on it.

It is true and one day you'll know.

No. My deciding does not make something true. But my deciding to believe the gospel is what enabled me to become born again. You too, whether you know it or not.

One day you'll know otherwise.

Typical response. All water no meat. Just empty declarative statements. I wonder why you believe what you do and yet are completely unable to support it in any way.

 

[shroom]

Typical response. All water no meat. Just empty declarative statements. I wonder why you believe what you do and yet are completely unable to support it in any way.

I’ve given plenty of scripture in past posts. All you do is tell me I’m misunderstanding them, and that the right way to see them is the Calvinist way, twisting the plain words of the Bible to fit Calvinism.

 

[Arial]

I’ve given plenty of scripture in past posts. All you do is tell me I’m misunderstanding them, and that the right way to see them is the Calvinist way, twisting the plain words of the Bible to fit Calvinism.

You give scriptures and when I give what you call the Calvinist way (which you hate therefore to you it is wrong) you cannot show me where what I say is wrong. I do show you where yours is adding things that aren't there. And the interpretation I give is logically and Biblically sound,changes none of the words or wording. It is legitimate. By that I do not meant true ( though I think it is) I mean supported with the full content of the Bible, from my view. Where as you can only repeat your scriptures or more just like it, and all you can say about it "This is what it says." Even though all Calvinism aside, they don't.

I waved bye. Take the hint.

 

[shroom]

You give scriptures and when I give what you call the Calvinist way (which you hate therefore to you it is wrong)

It's wrong because it is wrong, not because I dislike it.

you cannot show me where what I say is wrong.

I have. Multiple times. But you are committed to Calvinism.

I do show you where yours is adding things that aren't there.

You did no such thing. I didn't add anything.

And the interpretation I give is logically and Biblically sound,changes none of the words or wording. It is legitimate.

If it was, people would agree with you. I would too.

By that I do not meant true ( though I think it is) I mean supported with the full content of the Bible, from my view.

From your Calvinist view, yes. You see the Bible through a Calvinist lens.

Where as you can only repeat your scriptures or more just like it,

Why is that a problem? Think about it, Arial.

and all you can say about it "This is what it says." Even though all Calvinism aside, they don't.

SMH.

I waved bye. Take the hint.

If you don't want to interact with me, stop responding.

 

[Arial]

It's wrong because it is wrong, not because I dislike it.

I have. Multiple times. But you are committed to Calvinism.

You did no such thing. I didn't add anything.

If it was, people would agree with you. I would too.

From your Calvinist view, yes. You see the Bible through a Calvinist lens.

Why is that a problem? Think about it, Arial.

SMH.

If you don't want to interact with me, stop responding.

Didn't read.

 

[shroom]

Didn't read.

I bet you did...
Later