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The Trinity ancient Jews believed in

Sissy said:
If you read the book you would know that Segal most certainly does admit that Jews believed YHWH was a plurality for centuries, even though he himself doesn't hold that view.
Heck, he doesn't even believe Jesus is the Messiah.
And he says in his book that it wasn't until AFTER the time of Jesus that Jews decided to stop discussing the plurality of YHWH for the very reason that Christians claimed (rather KNEW) Jesus was indeed the Messiah and connected Him with the Angel of the Lord just like Jews did for centuries.
He's very honest about it even though he doesn't hold that view.
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You go with Segal (he’s wrong) and I’ll go with Jesus, trinitarian scholarship and Jewish scholarship.
 
Mattathias said:
See his atrocious arguments for binitarianism in Jewish theology.
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You mean his DOCUMENTED argument that Jews did indeed believe YHWH was a plurality.
Not only does he document binitarianism (which means YHWH is a plurality), but also documents writings of ancient Jews that believed YHWH was triune.
Sorry, Matt, but there is no doubt that ancient Jews believed YHWH was a plurality.
Doesn't mean all did then, as it doesn't mean all don't now.
But many respected Rabbis believed it for centuries.
 
Sissy said:
You mean his DOCUMENTED argument that Jews did indeed believe YHWH was a plurality.
Not only does he document binitarianism (which means YHWH is a plurality), but also documents writings of ancient Jews that believed YHWH was triune.
Sorry, Matt, but there is no doubt that ancient Jews believed YHWH was a plurality.
Doesn't mean all did then, as it doesn't mean all don't now.
But many respected Rabbis believed it for centuries.
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Neither Judaism nor Jesus are binitarian in faith. Neither Judaism nor Jesus is trinitarian in faith.
 
Sissy said:
He's not WRONG.
That's a lie.
He documented it all with proof of ancient Jewish Rabbi writtings.



I'll go with scripture just like Jews did for centuries.
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I’ll go with scripture just like the Jews and Jesus himself did.

Jesus the binitarian is a fictitious character, as is Jesus the trinitarian.

If you want to believe scripture teaches binitarianism and / or trinitarianism then that’s on you.

Trinitarian scholarship knows full well that neither Judaism nor Jesus were binitarian and / or trinitarian.
 
Mattathias said:
I’ll go with scripture just like the Jews and Jesus himself did.

Jesus the binitarian is a fictitious character, as is Jesus the trinitarian.

If you want to believe scripture teaches binitarianism and / or trinitarianism then that’s on you.

Trinitarian scholarship knows full well that neither Judaism nor Jesus were binitarian and / or trinitarian.
Click to expand...
I'll go with scripture, just like Jews have done for centuries and came to the conclusion that YHWH is a plurality.
Jesus knew He was of the plurality of YHWH and so did His Jewish followers.
 
Sissy said:
I'll go with scripture, just like Jews have done for centuries and came to the conclusion that YHWH is a plurality.
Jesus knew He was of the plurality of YHWH and so did His Jewish followers.
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Jesus the binitarian / trinitarian and his Jewish binitarian / trinitarian followers?

That’s another one where there is no possibility of us ever coming to agreement on.

The God of Jesus is only one person. He and his Jewish followers knew that.
 
Sissy said:
If you read the book you would know that Segal most certainly does admit that Jews believed YHWH was a plurality for centuries, even though he himself doesn't hold that view.
Heck, he doesn't even believe Jesus is the Messiah.
And he says in his book that it wasn't until AFTER the time of Jesus that Jews decided to stop discussing the plurality of YHWH for the very reason that Christians claimed (rather KNEW) Jesus was indeed the Messiah and connected Him with the Angel of the Lord just like Jews did for centuries.
He's very honest about it even though he doesn't hold that view.
Click to expand...

After reading his book I was persuaded to become a binitarian. (I wasn’t well educated in theology then - certainly not Jewish theology - and was wavering on trinitarianism.) My trinitarian pastor at the time helped me to see that binitarianism wasn’t actually a biblical concept. He was “old school” trinitarian, and he acknowledged that Judaism always was and still is unitarian.

The man was heartbroken when I told him years later that I had become a unitarian. As far as he was concerned, I had embraced “the error of Judaism”. (No matter that I believe Jesus is the Messiah and never converted to Judaism. I’m a Christian, Anabaptist.)

Interestingly, he and I co-officiated at a funeral service for a trinitarian family member of mine (at my family member’s request) decades later. He wasn’t particularly rude but he kept his distance from me (I spoke to him but he refused to speak to me, or even acknowledge my presence beyond a quick nod when he had finished speaking - the man is hard core trinitarian) and made it clear to all present that I was persona non grata. Awkward, but we both faithfully discharged our duties as clergymen.
 
Mattathias said:
After reading his book I was persuaded to become a binitarian. (I wasn’t well educated in theology then - certainly not Jewish theology - and was wavering on trinitarianism.) My trinitarian pastor at the time helped me to see that binitarianism wasn’t actually a biblical concept. He was “old school” trinitarian, and he acknowledged that Judaism always was and still is unitarian.

The man was heartbroken when I told him years later that I had become a unitarian. As far as he was concerned, I had embraced “the error of Judaism”. (No matter that I believe Jesus is the Messiah and never converted to Judaism. I’m a Christian, Anabaptist.)

Interestingly, he and I co-officiated at a funeral service for a trinitarian family member of mine (at my family member’s request) decades later. He wasn’t particularly rude but he kept his distance from me (I spoke to him but he refused to speak to me, or even acknowledge my presence beyond a quick nod when he had finished speaking - the man is hard core trinitarian) and made it clear to all present that I was persona non grata. Awkward, but we both faithfully discharged our duties as clergymen.
Click to expand...

I doubt it will matter much to anyone here but after I typed this I did an online search for my old trinitarian pastor. Sadly, I discovered that he died on December 31, 2018.

obituaries.dailyindependent.com

Remembering the life of Charles Stewart

Charles Stewart passed away. This is the full obituary where you can express condolences and share memories. Published in the The Independent on 2018-12-31.
obituaries.dailyindependent.com obituaries.dailyindependent.com

RIP, Brother Stewart.
 
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