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The Eclipse of God

A

Arial

Guest
I borrowed the OP title from a book by Martin Buber (1878-1965) in which he discusses the emerging Liberal Christianity and its effects. There is such a profound metaphor in that description and what is happening as a result of the introduction of liberal Christianity, even today, and I would venture to say, even more today, that I could not resist.

The intention of the promotion of a liberal Christianity was to deconstruct the very cornerstone and foundation of apostolic, and therefore traditional, Christianity. The idea was, that in the view of scientific discoveries and a world that was shrinking in size (in that people were not so isolated to one geographic area, but communications and interactions and travel were expanding around the globe) the old way was also antiquated. It was outdated and needed to bring itself into alignment with the modern world. One way this was done was through investigative study into all the religions of the world, gather them together, keep the common denominators, and throw out the rest. The result was the loss of the idea of God as a transcendent personal being with which mankind can have a personal relationship. With this, away went the virgin birth, the deity of Christ, a personal savior, the atonement, resurrection, and ascension.

Today there are many forms of Liberal Christianity, some of which do not deny any of the above, or only some of the above, claim in fact to believe them. In many cases it is just lip service, and in all cases, much that the Bible gives us is lost.
Man's reason is stressed and treated as the final authority.
Science is treated as all knowing, the Bible fable-laden and false.
Man is not seen as totally depraved.
The social gospel is emphasized.
Salvation from sin and its penalty of hell is no longer the issue; the main things is how man treats his fellow man.
Hell is not real.
Man is not lost, and is not doomed to some future judgment.
The most important thing for man to do is love his neighbor. And not according to what the Bible says in any given situation, but what they decide is good.
Not all liberal Christians believe all these things. Some maintain the basic doctrines of Christianity----maybe throwing out the deity of Christ, or the sovereignty of God---but we can see how these things have crept in unnoticed into our midst, and has become the predominant portrait of the visible church.

Solar Eclipse
An eclipse of the sun happens when the new moon moves between the sun and the Earth, blocking out the sun's rays, casting a shadow on the earth.

Metaphor
A solar eclipse does not change the sun. It neither stops it from shining or from being what it is.
The light of the sun is hidden, concealed, because of the moon casting a shadow over the world.

The light is God. The moon in this case is liberal Christianity, that utterly conceals who God is, nor does it care who God is. The focus after all should be entirely on us. It conceals the actual person and work of Christ, and turns the attention to social issues alone. We are after all, are we not, responsible for our own salvation. And not from sin mind you, but from inequities. We alone can change the world and we can do it with kindness. Who needs a personal though mythical Jesus? So goes the result, if not the thought process.

Liberal Christian theologians of whatever ilk, without reservation and full conviction, announce that those who still believe in old fashioned traditional Christianity are stupid. And even if it is not spoken by followers of this "religion", or caged ineffectually in polite speech, often referring to themselves as "enlightened", it believes the sentiment, consciously or unconsciously (unconsciously is best as it give plausible deniability).

To this I say, thank God for the words that He gives us through Paul in 1 Cor 1:26-31 For you see your calling brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble are called. But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things that are mighty; and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things that are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, that no flesh should glory in His presence. But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God----and righteousness and sanctification and redemption---that, as it is written, "He who glories, let him glory in the Lord." !!!

20-21 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe/ where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
 
Hi Arial,

From my Christian liberal (not Liberal Christian as to me I put Christ first) standpoint we stand on Christ, his death, burial, and resurrection. Standing on the principles Jesus stated in the Bible such as love God first and love others, self-denial in following Christ, allowing God to work in the heart and minds of individuals who are his, we believe that those who come to Jesus become children of God and have the Holy Spirit to live by.

I don’t agree with what the person said here those who old fashioned traditional Christianity are stupid.

Looking at people like their stupid wouldn’t be a Christ-like action in my book, however there are people who may be misled.
 
Hi Arial,

From my Christian liberal (not Liberal Christian as to me I put Christ first) standpoint we stand on Christ, his death, burial, and resurrection. Standing on the principles Jesus stated in the Bible such as love God first and love others, self-denial in following Christ, allowing God to work in the heart and minds of individuals who are his, we believe that those who come to Jesus become children of God and have the Holy Spirit to live by.

I don’t agree with what the person said here those who old fashioned traditional Christianity are stupid.

Looking at people like their stupid wouldn’t be a Christ-like action in my book, however there are people who may be misled.
A Christian liberal is a liberal Christian.
As I said, not all liberal Christians believe exactly the same thing. That is the point of liberal Christianity. Makeup you own. Take some things from the Bible, define them as you see fit----but be careful not to fall into that old time religion. Some think the culture stands as the authority over the Bible. Some think Jesus was a good moral teacher and He came to show us how to be good people. Some think, yeah He is the Son of God, He really died and was really raised from the dead, and yeah, He did it to forgive the sins of everyone in the whole world and even those already dead and there is no hell.

Some believe God is a Principle, not a personal being. Some think no one can know if they are saved. Others think no one needs to be saved. Some think the Bible is an entire allegory or metaphor, with good things to teach but not inspired by God or representing absolute spiritual truth. Some think all beliefs are of equal value and equally true that all that really matters is standing on the one single "principle" to love others----then define what love looks like and acts like, not from scripture, but taking their cues from the dictates of culture.

Some mix parts of traditional Christianity with mysticism and theosophy, and philosophy, and earthly wisdom, and Islam, Budaism, Hinduism, and think that is the real Christianity. Others shrug and say, "your truth is as good as my truth. Peace." and believe that. Some believe that the Holy Spirit is freely given to all so that all can work their way to being saved.

Bottom line, there is nothing to defend and no way to defend it, the road is wide and easy, and oh look how wide the gate is, and look at all the people headed that way. It must be the right way. I don't need to worry about what Jesus said. That was over two thousand years ago.

One person said liberal Christianity (made up of Christian liberals) could be summed up in one word.


Unbelief.
 
A Christian liberal is a liberal Christian.
As I said, not all liberal Christians believe exactly the same thing. That is the point of liberal Christianity. Makeup you own. Take some things from the Bible, define them as you see fit----but be careful not to fall into that old time religion. Some think the culture stands as the authority over the Bible. Some think Jesus was a good moral teacher and He came to show us how to be good people. Some think, yeah He is the Son of God, He really died and was really raised from the dead, and yeah, He did it to forgive the sins of everyone in the whole world and even those already dead and there is no hell.

Some believe God is a Principle, not a personal being. Some think no one can know if they are saved. Others think no one needs to be saved. Some think the Bible is an entire allegory or metaphor, with good things to teach but not inspired by God or representing absolute spiritual truth. Some think all beliefs are of equal value and equally true that all that really matters is standing on the one single "principle" to love others----then define what love looks like and acts like, not from scripture, but taking their cues from the dictates of culture.

Some mix parts of traditional Christianity with mysticism and theosophy, and philosophy, and earthly wisdom, and Islam, Budaism, Hinduism, and think that is the real Christianity. Others shrug and say, "your truth is as good as my truth. Peace." and believe that. Some believe that the Holy Spirit is freely given to all so that all can work their way to being saved.

Bottom line, there is nothing to defend and no way to defend it, the road is wide and easy, and oh look how wide the gate is, and look at all the people headed that way. It must be the right way. I don't need to worry about what Jesus said. That was over two thousand years ago.

One person said liberal Christianity (made up of Christian liberals) could be summed up in one word.


Unbelief.
Fair enough. Thank you for your response.
 
It is in post number 2, Arial.

I believe in the foundation principles set forth in the bible.

Such as a man and a woman is the way God established marriage.

That is just one thing for starters.
 
It is in post number 2, Arial.

I believe in the foundation principles set forth in the bible.

Such as a man and a woman is the way God established marriage.

That is just one thing for starters.
Then let me ask the question a different way. Why do you consider your theology liberal? Where does the liberal come in?
 
I believe that Liberty is founded once a person realized they have had their sins forgiven, and that even though they become babes in Christ in faith in the death, burial, and resurrection they are born again right then and there.

They are individually responsible for their own actions between themselves and God.

No man can get in-between that relationship.

People can come along pass along truths founded in the bible by practicing in learning and reading the scriptures and the holy spirit that indwells them should be the primary guide they rely on in praying to the Father, and trusting the principles laid out by Jesus himself, and the Apostles, and the even the Old Testament Prophets - in turn which leads to having actions of love towards God and others.

So this is not a "Liberty" that involves politics at all or trying to go away from the fundamental eternal truths and principles founded in the bible.

Just to quote one scripture: 2 Corinthians 3:17 would be one of them.
 
I am sorry if this doesn't answer your question, as I may not be able to answer how you desire. My theology is not really liberal, however my eschatology is far different than many people believe in which has the completion of Christ and his victory over all things already.

So I do not understand that term "Liberal Theology", I forget what theology even means, thank you for that, @Arial.

Definition of theology


1: the study of religious faith, practice, and experience especially : the study of God and of God's relation to the world
2a: a theological theory or system Thomist theologya theology of atonement
b: a distinctive body of theological opinion Catholic theology
3: a usually 4-year course of specialized religious training in a Roman Catholic major seminary
 
I am sorry if this doesn't answer your question, as I may not be able to answer how you desire. My theology is not really liberal, however my eschatology is far different than many people believe in which has the completion of Christ and his victory over all things already.

So I do not understand that term "Liberal Theology", I forget what theology even means, thank you for that, @Arial.

Definition of theology


1: the study of religious faith, practice, and experience especially : the study of God and of God's relation to the world
2a: a theological theory or system Thomist theologya theology of atonement
b: a distinctive body of theological opinion Catholic theology
3: a usually 4-year course of specialized religious training in a Roman Catholic major seminary
Theology more clearly defined from a different source:
The study of the nature of God and religious belief.
Religious beliefs and theory when systematically developed.

You proclaimed yourself to be a Christian liberal. I described in the OP what liberal Christianity is, how and why it got started. You must have had something in mind when you responded. Is that all you meant---that your eschatology is different from all other views?

What do you mean in your tag:Christian ultra Libertarians?
 
Christian Ultra-Libertarians for truth. Christ is the head, the arch:

Colossians 1:18
And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.

746 arxḗ – properly, from the beginning (temporal sense), i.e. "the initial(starting) point"; (figuratively) what comes first and therefore is chief(foremost), i.e. has the priority because ahead of the rest ("preeminent").

Jesus is who is placed first - as Christian is the first word of the little acronym.
Ultra-Libertarians - considering Jesus is the head, that means we place him first, and where the spirit of the Lord is there is freedom.
For truth - for the truth

In my understand we look at the Bible, and it is the greatest gift God has given to man. We look at the history, the context, the contents, and we try to sort out through all the differences that may come along and do our best to stick to what is the truth of what the scripture presents.

So it is like this my friend, Arial. The acronym - CULT - is no different really, than a self-proclaimed baptists, protestant reformer, calvinist, armainist, or whatever, what other churches are out there, Randalls Chapels, whatever kind it is however we place Christ first, always, and forever, and we find liberty in knowing God, and the One God had Sent Jesus Christ, and live by the principles founded in the Bible however not everything in there is applicable for us today - due to the my eschatology.

With all this - Christian Ultra-Libertians for Truth - Christ Jesus is placed first, and we submit in praying to our Father in heaven daily, dying to ourselves placing him first, with faith in the Lord who died, was buried, and raised again, and seek for the truth founded in the Bible however we do not make 'DEMANDS' over people over what they should submit to or not, however we let the Holy Spirit guide them, and we teach the bible in its historical context, though there are principles founded in the Bible that can be applied to ones self today which...

Should lead to having actions of Love towards God, and towards our neighbors. Also with the liberty found in Christ - one can visit any and all churches they desire if they just wanna go and see people, listen to a message and fellowship.

Hope this helps you understand.
 
For the most part - the CULT is an approach, and not a denomination and all people of different backgrounds are welcome to come and learn from the perspective of fulfilled eschatology the bible that helps in fortifying our FAITH. All people meaning literally all people. No matter if they believe in calvinism or arminian, non believer, those who are seeking, it is a approach over all.
 
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