If I may interject.How do you that Jesus' body remained flesh and bone. God is Spirit.
"After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight" (Acts 1:9).
When Jesus appeared in the upper room, He told them: "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."If I may interject..
Jesus could walk on water, as well as disappear in a crowd while he was flesh and blood.
What would make it more difficult by shedding his blood?
You don't think it was the blood that made him able do ya?
It reads that "that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God."NOTE: in 1 Cor 15:50:"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption." Notice that Flesh and Bone will inherit the kingdom of GOD.
Do you think Jesus was bleeding all over the floor when he tole Thomas to thrust his hand in his side?It reads that "that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God."
I suggest that God's righteousness and justice is fully revealed through Christ as a representative. God allows the righteous and innocent to suffer, and his sufferings are prefigured by Abel and Joseph, and the question of why does a righteous man suffer is thoroughly considered in the Book of Job, again a pattern of Christ's sufferings. Also Isaiah 53 is a prophecy of Jesus based upon the experiences or even before the sufferings of Hezekiah. There is a sensitive balance in the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus, the meeting together of God's justice, mercy and lovingkindness and the forgiveness available through this declaration of the righteousness of God.One thing I did not see in what you said is to me crucial in understanding exactly why a substitution was necessary. And that is justice. God, being always and perfectly just, demands that justice be served against sin.
Again I consider the sacrifices as representative. Any judge that punishes the innocent and lets the guilty go free would soon lose his position as a judge.And in the OT sacrificial system it was always a substitution. One perfect, innocent life laid down instead of the guilty.
God will have mercy on whom he will.Greetings again Arial,
Again I consider the sacrifices as representative. Any judge that punishes the innocent and lets the guilty go free would soon lose his position as a judge.
Kind regards
Trevor
Yes it does, ......Is that 'Flesh and Blood' the same as 'Flesh and Bone'? I think not!It reads that "that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God."
Trevor are we speaking of contemporary times about the judges..??Greetings again Arial,
I suggest that God's righteousness and justice is fully revealed through Christ as a representative. God allows the righteous and innocent to suffer, and his sufferings are prefigured by Abel and Joseph, and the question of why does a righteous man suffer is thoroughly considered in the Book of Job, again a pattern of Christ's sufferings. Also Isaiah 53 is a prophecy of Jesus based upon the experiences or even before the sufferings of Hezekiah. There is a sensitive balance in the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus, the meeting together of God's justice, mercy and lovingkindness and the forgiveness available through this declaration of the righteousness of God.
Again I consider the sacrifices as representative. Any judge that punishes the innocent and lets the guilty go free would soon lose his position as a judge.
Kind regards
Trevor
I appreciate your response, but I am not sure whether you are endorsing the obvious injustice of punishing the innocent and overlooking the sin of the guilty. Also possibly you are endorsing some form of Calvinism, where God's selection seems to be almost arbitrary. I do not question God and his decisions on who will be saved, as we are not even fully aware of our own motives and status 1 Corinthians 4:4-5. I believe that whatever God chooses it will be an abundance of mercy but balanced with his justice. The most remarkable positive Psalm has one half verse, Psalm 145:20 that speaks of judgement against the wicked. God's judgements are not arbitrary.God will have mercy on whom he will. Who are you to question God?
I am not sure if you have understood why Job suffered. Job was vindicated in comparison to the three friends, even though he seemed to endorse a faulty syllogism at first, which the friends continued to pursue.Job abhorred himself and repented of that mind set.
Not particularly, the principle is universal, but Psalm 82 also comes to mind.Trevor are we speaking of contemporary times about the judges..??
The sacrifices IMO were representative, or a shadow of, what was to come. The fulfillment and once for all, in Jesus Christ. Hebrews tells us this. But they were also actual. In the OT it was a temporary covering of sin and a temporary forgiveness as it could not cleanse the conscience of anyone. They had to be repeated year after year. The animal substitution could not provide righteousness for the one it substituted for. With the suffering and death of Jesus, the truly righteous, that was also actual, no longer a shadow, but the real thing,doing an actual something. Providing a way for sin to meet its just penalty, death, and at the same time, making it possible for the righteousness of the One who died to be accredited to the account of the one who He died for. This is done by grace and through faith. As for your statement on judges, you speak of earthly judges and earthly laws and when it comes to the things of God, and His dealing as the Righteous Judge with sin and sinful humans, we are in no position to reason out what He does according to our reasoning or by comparing Him to what are always imperfect human analogies. God did send the Son into our world as one of us, the man Jesus, Jesus did come in full agreement and purpose, He did live holy and righteous for the sole purpose of going to the cross and dying there, for the sole purpose of redeeming a people for God and His kingdom, and in this death and resurrection and ascension back to the Father, He did save a people. Even from your POV the innocent died to save the guilty.Again I consider the sacrifices as representative. Any judge that punishes the innocent and lets the guilty go free would soon lose his position as a judge.
Greetings shroom and Greetings again Arial,
I appreciate your responses. I accept much of what you state, but I do not believe that Jesus paid our debt or suffered instead of us. We still suffer and die, and the two thieves on the cross suffered a similar death and even their legs were broken. I believe that Jesus as the sinless Lamb of God suffered and died because he voluntarily submitted to the Father's will, even a death on the cross, and because he had never sinned, and because of the Father's love to him, the grave could not hold him. He was a descendant of Adam, having his mortal, sin prone nature, but because he was holy and never sinned the Father raised him and gave him the gift of immortality. When we by faith identify with his death and resurrection through baptism in water our sins are forgiven, not paid for like a set of scales by substitution. The whole process is representation, not substitution. Two passages, and there are many others are Romans 6:1-8 and Galatians 2:20. Jesus reversed the sentence of death of Genesis 3:19.
Kind regards
Trevor
I think he is speaking of Jesus' physical resurrected body as He appeared for 40 days before the Ascension.How do you that Jesus' body remained flesh and bone. God is Spirit.
"After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight" (Acts 1:9).