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The Cross

A

Arial

Guest
The cross has stood as representative of Christianity for centuries. It graces our sanctuaries, stands atop our church buildings, bold and unmistakable against the sky lines, it appears in unlikely places in desolate deserts or a hilltop in the wide open prairie where Easter sunrise services are held. Many Christians wear a cross around their neck close to their heart. Countless hymns are sung about the cross. The cross represents the death of Jesus of course, but why is it that the full system of Christianity can be summed up in "The Cross"? What exactly happened there that caused centuries to be separated by BC, before Christ, and AD, Anno Domini, ("the year of our Lord",) which marks the time following the birth of Jesus, His life, death and resurrection as the turning point in world history.

What happened there, on the cross, that prompts the statement of the faithful, "Jesus died for my sins?"

In John 3:17 we read, "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world." Not everyone in the world, we have evidence in the Bible and in the real world, that not everyone is saved, but the world itself as well as people from all nations in the world. Mark 10:45 "For even the Son of man did not come to be served, but to serve, and give His life a ransom for many." He came to be a ransom. And for many. He also said in John 10:15 "As the Father knows me, even so I know the Father, and I lay down my life for the sheep." Jesus is saying in these verses that He is going to die, and that death is some way going to ransom, or redeem a people, and these people are His people. Why is His death a ransom? What does it redeem anyone from? How does it do this"


A ransom is a price paid for the release of captives from the captor. Romans 7:6 But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code." Paul here is talking to Christians, saying they have been released from captivity. It is not the law that held us captive, but sin, our breaking of the law. He says in verse 5 that our sinful passions were aroused by the law. In verse 13 "Did that which is good, (the law) then bring death to me? By no means! It was sin, producing death in me through what is good----". In verses 24 and 25 Paul gives the remedy. "Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ or Lord!"

God's perfect justice demands a penalty upon sin. Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Heb 9:22 "And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sin." This is seen in the OT sacrificial worship system. The offering had to be without spot or blemish. A perfect life given to save the imperfect life. This is what Jesus did for us, once. Heb 9:28 "so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many."

Two things had to be done in order to save anyone from eternal separation from God, to snatch a people out of the kingdom of darkness and into the kingdom of God. To save them from going to hell, and give them eternal life in the household of God. The people's sin had to meet God's just punishment, which is death. And then death had to be conquered. Only One without sin could do this, take the place of another, in receiving sin's penalty. So God Himself sent the Son, who was always with God and is God (John 1) and became one of us to fulfill this redemption. He lived without sin in perfect obedience to the Father, and then, He went willingly to that cross and died the death of a sinner. Mocked, and spit on, a crown of thorns on His head, and in His mind were the names of those He died for. Beaten, and shamed, He hung in agony, til God in His mercy cut the time short, and Jesus cried out "It is finished." Mission accomplished. Sin meets justice. The curtain separating the Holy of Holies, torn from top to bottom, giving access to the Father to all who belong to the Son. And Jesus was laid in a tomb, and on the third day was raised up from death. Death conquered. "He is risen." After forty days spent instructing His disciples He returned back to the Father, where He sits now as our High Priest and His perfect righteousness is credited to the account of those who trust in Him for salvation. Our sins forgiven. 2Cor 5:21 For He hath made Him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him."

Eph. 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith---and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God."
This is what happened on the cross.

What manner of love is this!
 
1 Corinthians 2 ESV
(2) For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.


Galatians 6 ESV
(14) But far be it from me to boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
 
Greetings Arial,
Two things had to be done in order to save anyone from eternal separation from God, to snatch a people out of the kingdom of darkness and into the kingdom of God. To save them from going to hell, and give them eternal life in the household of God. The people's sin had to meet God's just punishment, which is death. And then death had to be conquered. Only One without sin could do this, take the place of another, in receiving sin's penalty.
If Jesus died as our substitute, or as our ransom, taking the penalty of our sins, then why do we still die?

Kind regards
Trevor
 
Greetings Arial,

If Jesus died as our substitute, or as our ransom, taking the penalty of our sins, then why do we still die?

Kind regards
Trevor
Hi Trevor,

We all die the first death (Heb 9:27). But because Jesus Christ paid the penalty of our sins, Christians will not die the second death.

The second death is the one to avoid.
 
Greetings Arial,

If Jesus died as our substitute, or as our ransom, taking the penalty of our sins, then why do we still die?

Kind regards
Trevor
Because we are still in corruptible flesh. Jesus died too. He was resurrected. Death couldn't hold Him. Neither can it hold the believer. We will be resurrected to life, and life eternal.
 
Because we are still in corruptible flesh. Jesus died too. He was resurrected. Death couldn't hold Him. Neither can it hold the believer. We will be resurrected to life, and life eternal.

Which is what makes any sort of physical 'rapture' idea entirely unnecessary.
 
Which is what makes any sort of physical 'rapture' idea entirely unnecessary.
Why is that?

Jesus Christ was physically resurrected. If he hadn't been, he would still be dead. His resurrected body is flesh and bone. That's pretty physical. The Bible says we'll have bodies like his.
 
Greetings shroom and Greetings again Arial,
We all die the first death (Heb 9:27). But because Jesus Christ paid the penalty of our sins, Christians will not die the second death.
Because we are still in corruptible flesh. Jesus died too. He was resurrected. Death couldn't hold Him. Neither can it hold the believer. We will be resurrected to life, and life eternal.
I appreciate your responses. I accept much of what you state, but I do not believe that Jesus paid our debt or suffered instead of us. We still suffer and die, and the two thieves on the cross suffered a similar death and even their legs were broken. I believe that Jesus as the sinless Lamb of God suffered and died because he voluntarily submitted to the Father's will, even a death on the cross, and because he had never sinned, and because of the Father's love to him, the grave could not hold him. He was a descendant of Adam, having his mortal, sin prone nature, but because he was holy and never sinned the Father raised him and gave him the gift of immortality. When we by faith identify with his death and resurrection through baptism in water our sins are forgiven, not paid for like a set of scales by substitution. The whole process is representation, not substitution. Two passages, and there are many others are Romans 6:1-8 and Galatians 2:20. Jesus reversed the sentence of death of Genesis 3:19.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
Greetings Arial,

If Jesus died as our substitute, or as our ransom, taking the penalty of our sins, then why do we still die?

Kind regards
Trevor
As our Ransom? He paid the price for a bethroved Bride to be...That was a purchase price not a ransom.
Thanks to Adam and His fall.,...We are all appointed death (with a rapture exception)

Blade
 
Greetings Bladerunner,
As our Ransom? He paid the price for a bethroved Bride to be...That was a purchase price not a ransom.
I am quite happy with the term "ransom" and the following are a few passages where this occurs, including the passage that Arial quoted in the OP.

Isaiah 35:10 (KJV): And the ransomed of the LORD shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.

Hosea 13:14 (KJV): I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.

Mark 10:45 (KJV): For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.


I understand the term "ransom" to refer more to the fact that what Jesus accomplished resulted in the basis for the believer to be ultimately freed from sin and death, and this is accomplished by forgiveness of those who believe in Jesus, not a debt paid. We receive this forgiveness when we properly believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus and this motivates us to identify with his death and resurrection by baptism in water. The subject of the Atonement is a wide subject and all the factors contribute to a correct balance and a proper understanding. Consider the sacrifices and offerings under the Law, Trespass, Sin, Burnt, Peace, Meal and Drink Offerings. The Passover, the Red Heifer, the Day of Atonement. There are also many individual passages that contribute. The subject is considered in Romans chapters 1-8 and aspects of the Book of Hebrews. But the full reality of all of this is the Life, Death and Resurrection of Jesus, the Son of Man, the Son of God, his birth, moral and fullness of character, God's beloved Son.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
1 Corinthians 2 ESV
(2) For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.


Galatians 6 ESV
(14) But far be it from me to boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
1 Corinthians 1:18-31 KJV -

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
 
Greetings shroom and Greetings again Arial,


I appreciate your responses. I accept much of what you state, but I do not believe that Jesus paid our debt or suffered instead of us. We still suffer and die, and the two thieves on the cross suffered a similar death and even their legs were broken. I believe that Jesus as the sinless Lamb of God suffered and died because he voluntarily submitted to the Father's will, even a death on the cross, and because he had never sinned, and because of the Father's love to him, the grave could not hold him. He was a descendant of Adam, having his mortal, sin prone nature, but because he was holy and never sinned the Father raised him and gave him the gift of immortality. When we by faith identify with his death and resurrection through baptism in water our sins are forgiven, not paid for like a set of scales by substitution. The whole process is representation, not substitution. Two passages, and there are many others are Romans 6:1-8 and Galatians 2:20. Jesus reversed the sentence of death of Genesis 3:19.

Kind regards
Trevor
To me those passages you quote, which are directed to believers, are instruction in how we are to live as those who belong to Christ. Which is in obedience. Rather than a teaching on how we are joined to Christ. Though one who is saved from the wrath of God, by being joined to Christ through faith, is fully saved in the here and now, we have not reached the fullness of that salvation. That is not all things have yet been restored. We still live in a fallen world and still have our fallen nature. Therefore, we are still subject to suffering and physical death, but they are but a blip on the radar of what is to come. When the corruptible will put on incorruption. 1Cor 15: 20-28; 1Cor 15:50-57.

The Bible describes what happened on the cross as a debt being satisfied. In Romans 6:23 it is stated as sin's wages being death. It is not God who is being paid and it is not satan who is being paid on the cross, it is sins wages being paid. Something happens in actuality, not representatively, is how I see it. We are the sinners, our sins have wages due, those wages is out death. We can only pay those wages through our death, and this death is not simply the dying of our body, but eternal separation from God and life. No second chance at redemption after that.

2Cor 5:21 tells us that Jesus substituted is perfect sinless life for the believer's sinful one, paying those wages Himself. in our place. This work of Jesus is applied to a person at the new birth, and in that act of our justification by the Holy Spirit, we are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the time of the fulness of our redemption, explained in the passages I quoted from 1Cor. We will still suffer and physically die while we are in this body and in this world, as I said, but the Lord will be with us all the way, to bring us safely "home". Death has no power over us. It cannot separate us from Christ.
 
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