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My Lord and My God

I

ICHTHUS

Guest
John 20:28

“και απεκριθη ο θωμας και ειπεν αυτω ο κυριος μου και ο θεος μου”

“And answered Thomas and said to Him, My Lord and My God”

This is one of the clearest and strongest passages in the Bible, on the absolute Deity of The Lord Jesus Christ. It is no wonder that it has been attacked by those who oppose this great Bible Truth.

In the first place, there are some who suppose, like the Jehovah’s Witnesses do, that when Thomas responds to Jesus, he looks directly at Jesus, and says to Him, “My Lord”. Then Thomas is supposed to look towards heaven, and say, “My God”. Look again at what is actually written in this verse, “ειπεν αυτω”, Thomas “says to HIM”, which is in the SINGULAR in the Greek, meaning ONE PERSON. John does not say, “ο θωμας και ειπεν αὐτοῖς”, which is the plural, “and Thomas said to them”. Nor is there even a suggestion in this passage, that Thomas did what is assumed here. It is no doubt that such fanciful assumptions, are made by those who cannot accept that the Bible plainly Teaches, that Jesus Christ is Almighty God.

In the second place, we have a point of Greek grammar to consider. Are the words, “ο κυριος μου και ο θεος μου”, to understood as a “direct address” to Jesus Christ? The words are in the nominative, in the Greek, which here is known as “the nominative of direct address”, being the equivalent of the vocative case. It is not to be understood in John 20:28, as “an exclamation”, as suggested by some, and so used in many of the modern English Bibles.

The Unitarian Greek scholar, Dr George Winer, admits that the words are “directed to Jesus (εἶπεν αὐτῷ)” (Treatise on the Grammar of New Testament Greek, p. 228), but goes on to say, “is yet rather an exclamation than address”. Dr Winer is correct in saying that the words are directed at Jesus Christ, which is correct Greek, but then gives his personal theological opinion, as he cannot accept that Jesus Christ is God. By saying that Thomas’ response was an “exclamation”, it can be seen as “astonishment”. He does the same for Titus 2:13, where he says that grammatically the words, “τοῦ μεγάλου Θεοῦ καὶ Σωτῆρος ἡμῶν Χριστοῦ Ἰησοῦ” (our Great God and Saviour Jesus Christ), refer to one Person, Jesus Christ, but theologically he cannot accept that Paul could call Jesus Christ “the Great God” (page 162). Like the Jehovah’s Witnesses, Dr Winer rejects what the Bible actually teaches, because of their personal beliefs.

In the third place, we have the construction of the clause in the Greek, “ο θεος μου”. Here we have “θεος”, used for Jesus Christ, with the definite article, “ο” (ο θεος). There are some, like the early Church heretic, Origen, who said of the use of the Greek article with “θεος”, that, “The Logos, therefore, is fitly called not ο θεος, but θεος simply” (Dr R S Franks, The Doctrine of the Trinity, p. 93). Thereby paying the way for the other heretics, like Arius, and the present day Jehovah’s Witnesses.

It is argued by some who deny the Deity of Jesus Christ, that because in the Greek, we here have the nominative case, used as a vocative, that it requires the article. They quote the scholar, Dr Moule, in their support:

“In John xx.28 Ὁ Κύριός μου καὶ ὁ Θεός μου, it is to be noted that a substantive in the Nominative case used in a vocative sense and followed by a possessive could not be anarthrous (see Hoskyns and Davey, Commentary, in loc); the article before Θεός may, therefore, not be significant” (Dr C F D Moule, An Idiom Book of New Testament Greek, p.116)

Is this completely right? Does the nominative, when used as a vocative, always require that the Greek article is used? I looked up verses in the Greek Old Testament, the Septuagint (LXX), in the Book of Psalms, and found this is not always the case.

Psalm 118:28, “Θεὸς μου εἶ σύ, καὶ ἐξομολογήσομαί σοι· Θεὸς μου εἶ σύ, καὶ ὑψώσω σε· ἐξομολογήσομαί σοι, ὅτι ἐπήκουσάς μου, καὶ ἐγένου μοι εἰς σωτηρίαν”

“You are my God, and I will give thanks to you. You are my God, I will exalt you”

Psalm 22:10, “ἐπὶ σὲ ἐπερρίφην ἐκ μήτρας, ἐκ κοιλίας μητρός μου θεός μου εἶ σύ”

“I was thrown on you from my mother’s womb. From out of the belly of my mother, my God You are”

Psalm 89:26, “αὐτὸς ἐπικαλέσεταί με Πατήρ μου εἶ σύ, θεός μου καὶ ἀντιλήμπτωρ τῆς σωτηρίας μου”

“He will call to Me, ‘You are my Father, my God, and the Rock of my salvation”

In these examples, we have the nominative, “Θεὸς μου”, and “Πατήρ μου θεός μου”, which are used in the vocative, in direct address, where the Greek article is not used. No one would translate these verses, “You are my god”, and “You are my father, my god”?

It is clear from Thomas’ words as recorded by the Apostle John, that he directly addressed Jesus Christ, as “My LORD and My GOD”, where “ο κυριος”, is the equivalent to “Yahweh”.

In the fourth place, a very important point about Thomas’ response to Jesus Christ, is that fact that Jesus did not rebuke him for saying, “ὁ Θεός μου”. If as some falsely teach, that Jesus Christ is no more than a created being, and inferior to God the Father, then there can be no doubt, that Jesus would have rebuked Thomas, for calling Him “ὁ Θεός μου”, when He is a created being, like Thomas, even though higher, as the Father’s Representative on earth. Jesus would not have allowed this to have been unchallenged by Him, IF Thomas were wrong. This fact shows beyond any doubt, that Jesus accepted as TRUE Thomas calling Him, ὁ Θεός μου”. See the passages in Acts 14:13-15; Revelation 22:8-9.

In the fifth place, we have the words that Jesus spoke to Thomas,

“Jesus said to him, "Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” (verse 29)

Jesus here commends Thomas for his faith in Him, not rebuke him for his error in calling Him “ὁ Θεός μου”, as some would have use believe. Jesus’ words to Thomas, can be paraphrased as, “you believe Me to be your Lord and God, because you have seen Me as Risen from the dead, happy are those who do not have the great privilege in actually seeing what you do, and yet will believe Me”

There is no doubt to those who will simply accept what the Bible says, that in this wonderful passage about “Doubting Thomas”, that he in faith saw Jesus Christ as his “LORD and GOD”. Only those who reject the absolute Deity of The Lord Jesus Christ, will try to find ways to change the meaning of the Bible. They cannot succeed against the Infallible, Inerrant, Word of Almighty God.

For those who say that Jesus Christ never claimed to be GOD, this passage clearly destroys their argument.
 
There is an interesting reading found in Psalm 35, which is addressed to Yahweh:

"You have seen, O Yahweh; do not keep silence; O Yahweh, do not be far from me. Stir up Yourself and awaken to my judgment, to my cause, my God and my Lord"

In the Greek Old Testment (LXX), the final clause reads: "ὁ Θεός μου καὶ ὁ Κύριός μου". Thomas' words are "ο κυριος μου και ο θεος μου”, and addressed to Jesus Christ.
 
There seems little to know distinction to be made. It is the Spirit that gives life. So as long as we aren't conflating the Holy Temple with the Holy Spirit then I think we may be doing okay.

Of course you can have all knowledge and lack love and really have nothing.
 
There seems little to know distinction to be made. It is the Spirit that gives life. So as long as we aren't conflating the Holy Temple with the Holy Spirit then I think we may be doing okay.

Of course you can have all knowledge and lack love and really have nothing.

there is no mention of the Holy Spirit in the OP, so what point are you trying to make here?
 
Greetings ICHTHUS,
“And answered Thomas and said to Him, My Lord and My God”
This is one of the clearest and strongest passages in the Bible, on the absolute Deity of The Lord Jesus Christ. It is no wonder that it has been attacked by those who oppose this great Bible Truth.
I would like to respond to the above first by stating that I do not attack this particular passage John 20:28 but accept what this passage states. What I reject is your PARTICULAR interpretation of this verse and your claim that John 20:28 teaches "the absolute Deity of The Lord Jesus Christ". I do not want to base my response on your comments about the various other explanations, so I will jump down to your following statement
It is clear from Thomas’ words as recorded by the Apostle John, that he directly addressed Jesus Christ, as “My LORD and My GOD”, where “ο κυριος”, is the equivalent to “Yahweh”.
Originally in your first quote above, you translated or quoted John 20:28 as “And answered Thomas and said to Him, My Lord and My God”, but now you translate this or spell this as “My LORD and My GOD” and interpret that "LORD" here is equivalent to "Yahweh". I suggest that this goes against what the Bible teaches concerning Jesus as "Lord". Also in your first quote above you have stated "The Lord Jesus Christ". Do you suggest that this should be "The LORD (Yahweh) Jesus Christ" or are you willing to accept the possibility that when we say "the Lord Jesus Christ" that "Lord" here is in the sense of "Lord, Master, Ruler"? Please note in your answer to this that the Name "Jesus" already contains the Yahweh Name, representing "Yah's or Yahweh's salvation" or something similar.

Let us briefly examine the two different words, translated in KJV as "LORD" and "Lord".
Psalm 110:1 (KJV): The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Here we have the One God, Yahweh inviting David's Lord, our Lord Jesus Christ to sit next to Him.

Now Psalm 110:1 is one of the most quoted and expounded verses in the NT, and possibly two examples should be sufficient:
Acts 2:29–36 (KJV): 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Now even the Trinitarian translators of the KJV are more cautious than you as that even when translating the Greek here, they have preserved the distinction between The LORD and David's Lord. If you want to match Thomas' statement up with any other reference, why not compare Psalm 110:1 where David says "my Lord", not "my Yahweh".

Revelation 3:21–22 (KJV): 21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. 22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
Jesus is clearly alluding to and expounding Psalm 110:1, showing that Yahweh is God his Father.

I did a quick search in my Bible program, and I could not find an example of anyone using the expression "my Yahweh", but there were numerous examples of "my Lord" in the sense of ruler, master, Lord, superior, King. Perhaps you could find one if you had a more thorough search. Why I suggest it is inappropriate is that Yahweh is the Name of God, and it would seem incorrect to address God by His Name in that way.
There is no doubt to those who will simply accept what the Bible says, that in this wonderful passage about “Doubting Thomas”, that he in faith saw Jesus Christ as his “LORD and GOD”. Only those who reject the absolute Deity of The Lord Jesus Christ, will try to find ways to change the meaning of the Bible. They cannot succeed against the Infallible, Inerrant, Word of Almighty God.
I suggest that you are not accepting what the Bible says, but are attempting to change the meaning of the Bible. I will wait for your response on this portion of John 20:28 before I give an explanation of the second half. If you reject what I consider obvious, then I surmise that you will be intolerant of my understanding of the title "God" as applied to our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God John 20:30-31.

Kind regards
Trevor


:
 
Greetings ICHTHUS,

I would like to respond to the above first by stating that I do not attack this particular passage John 20:28 but accept what this passage states. What I reject is your PARTICULAR interpretation of this verse and your claim that John 20:28 teaches "the absolute Deity of The Lord Jesus Christ". I do not want to base my response on your comments about the various other explanations, so I will jump down to your following statement

Originally in your first quote above, you translated or quoted John 20:28 as “And answered Thomas and said to Him, My Lord and My God”, but now you translate this or spell this as “My LORD and My GOD” and interpret that "LORD" here is equivalent to "Yahweh". I suggest that this goes against what the Bible teaches concerning Jesus as "Lord". Also in your first quote above you have stated "The Lord Jesus Christ". Do you suggest that this should be "The LORD (Yahweh) Jesus Christ" or are you willing to accept the possibility that when we say "the Lord Jesus Christ" that "Lord" here is in the sense of "Lord, Master, Ruler"? Please note in your answer to this that the Name "Jesus" already contains the Yahweh Name, representing "Yah's or Yahweh's salvation" or something similar.

Let us briefly examine the two different words, translated in KJV as "LORD" and "Lord".
Psalm 110:1 (KJV): The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Here we have the One God, Yahweh inviting David's Lord, our Lord Jesus Christ to sit next to Him.

Now Psalm 110:1 is one of the most quoted and expounded verses in the NT, and possibly two examples should be sufficient:
Acts 2:29–36 (KJV): 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Now even the Trinitarian translators of the KJV are more cautious than you as that even when translating the Greek here, they have preserved the distinction between The LORD and David's Lord. If you want to match Thomas' statement up with any other reference, why not compare Psalm 110:1 where David says "my Lord", not "my Yahweh".

Revelation 3:21–22 (KJV): 21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. 22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
Jesus is clearly alluding to and expounding Psalm 110:1, showing that Yahweh is God his Father.

I did a quick search in my Bible program, and I could not find an example of anyone using the expression "my Yahweh", but there were numerous examples of "my Lord" in the sense of ruler, master, Lord, superior, King. Perhaps you could find one if you had a more thorough search. Why I suggest it is inappropriate is that Yahweh is the Name of God, and it would seem incorrect to address God by His Name in that way.

I suggest that you are not accepting what the Bible says, but are attempting to change the meaning of the Bible. I will wait for your response on this portion of John 20:28 before I give an explanation of the second half. If you reject what I consider obvious, then I surmise that you will be intolerant of my understanding of the title "God" as applied to our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God John 20:30-31.

Kind regards
Trevor


:

Trevor, what you suggest is what you believe that the Bible should say about Jesus Christ, which is based on your understanding on Him, and not what the Bible says. Your argument from Psalm 110:1, proves nothing, as There are many instances in the Old Testament, where “Adon” is used for Almighty God. In Exodus 23:17, “the Lord (Adon) GOD”; Exodus 34:23, “before the Lord (Adon) GOD, the God of Israel”; Joshua 3:11, 13, “the Lord (Adon) of all the earth”; Psalm 97:5, “the Lord (Adon) of the whole earth”; Psalm 114:7 reads, “Tremble, thou earth, at the presence of the Lord (Adon)”; Isaiah 1:24, 3:1, 10:16, 10:33, 19:4, “the Lord (Adon), the LORD of hosts”; Isaiah 51:22, “Thus saith thy Lord (Adon) the LORD, and thy God”; Micah 4:13, “the Lord (Adon) of the whole earth”; Zechariah 4:14, “the Lord (Adon) of the whole earth”; 6:5, “the Lord (Adon) of all the earth”. In Deuteronomy 10:17, we read: “O give thanks to the Lord of lords”; and Psalm 136:3, it says: “For the LORD your God [is] God of gods, and Lord of lords”. In the Hebrew, where it says “Lord”, and “lord”, in its 4 uses, the word used is, “Adon”. They are in the masculine plural, literally, “master of masters”. So, to say that “Adon”, “is always used in Scripture to describe human masters and lords, but never God”, is downright misleading.

Further, in 1 Corinthians 10:9, Paul clearly says that Jesus Christ is Yahweh, "We must not put Christ to the test, as some of them did and were destroyed by serpents". Paul is here referring to the incident in the Book of Numbers, which says, "And Yahweh sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people. And many people of Israel died" (21:6). Paul could never had quoted this OT passage for Jesus Christ, if He is just a mere man, or any less than YHWH.
 
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Further, in 1 Corinthians 10:9, Paul clearly says that Jesus Christ is Yahweh, "We must not put Christ to the test, as some of them did and were destroyed by serpents". Paul is here referring to the incident in the Book of Numbers, which says, "And Yahweh sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people. And many people of Israel died" (21:6). Paul could never had quoted this OT passage for Jesus Christ, if He is just a mere man, or any less than YHWH.
Other translations more properly have “Lord”, and it refers to God.

1 Cor 10:9 NASB Nor are we to put the Lord to the test, as some of them did, and were killed by the snakes.
 
Other translations more properly have “Lord”, and it refers to God.

1 Cor 10:9 NASB Nor are we to put the Lord to the test, as some of them did, and were killed by the snakes.

The textual evidence overwhelmingly supports the reading “τον χριστον”, in 1 Corinthians 10:9. The oldest Greek manuscript for this Letter of Paul, from around A.D. 200, the the Chester Beatty Papyri, P46. Before this time, we have the evidence of the Greek Church fathers, Irenaeus, who was born about A.D. 140; and Clement of Alexandria (150-215). Then, Origen (185-254), who was a heretic and denied that Jesus Christ is God; Eusebius (260-340). From the Latin Church, we have, Ambrose, Bishp of Malan (339-97), Augustine, Bishop of Hippo (354-430), both who knew Greek and used the Greek New Testament. Then, we also the the Syriac father, Ephraem (306-373), who came from Edessa.

In their Emphatic Diaglott, the Jehovah’s Witnesses, who published it in 1942, have in the Greek text, “χριστον”, and the English under it, “the Anointed”. Though in the English translation in the right column, it has “the Lord”, which is theological, rather than what the Greek says. Interestingly, in the cross-reference, it has the passage from Numbers 21, thereby they affirm the Deity of Jesus Christ, as the Greek says, “χριστον”. The Unitarian New Testament by Dr George Noyes, reads “Christ”.
 
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