Is The Bible A Failure?

[Legroom]

That is illogical. You promote a religious book that you acknowledge God had nothing to do with.

That's not accurate. The UB claims authorship from a number of celestial personalities that are not Gods. The authors of the Jesus papers were on the earth long before Adam and are still here. They are not divine beings. The Urantia Papers were sanctioned by Gabriel, he's not a God although he's Michaels chief executive.

....."Let it be made clear that revelations are not necessarily inspired. The cosmology of these revelations is not inspired. It is limited by our permission for the co-ordination and sorting of present-day knowledge. While divine or spiritual insight is a gift, human wisdom must evolve.

101:4.3 Truth is always a revelation: autorevelation when it emerges as a result of the work of the indwelling Adjuster; epochal revelation when it is presented by the function of some other celestial agency, group, or personality.

101:4.4 In the last analysis, religion is to be judged by its fruits, according to the manner and the extent to which it exhibits its own inherent and divine excellence.

101:4.5 Truth may be but relatively inspired, even though revelation is invariably a spiritual phenomenon. While statements with reference to cosmology are never inspired, such revelations are of immense value in that they at least transiently clarify knowledge by:

1. The reduction of confusion by the authoritative elimination of error.
2. The co-ordination of known or about-to-be-known facts and observations.
3. The restoration of important bits of lost knowledge concerning epochal transactions in the distant past.
4. The supplying of information which will fill in vital missing gaps in otherwise earned knowledge.
5. Presenting cosmic data in such a manner as to illuminate the spiritual teachings contained in the accompanying revelation.


********5. The Urantia Papers. The papers, of which this is one, constitute the most recent presentation of truth to the mortals of Urantia. These papers differ from all previous revelations, for they are not the work of a single universe personality but a composite presentation by many beings. But no revelation short of the attainment of the Universal Father can ever be complete. All other celestial ministrations are no more than partial, transient, and practically adapted to local conditions in time and space. While such admissions as this may possibly detract from the immediate force and authority of all revelations, the time has arrived on Urantia when it is advisable to make such frank statements, even at the risk of weakening the future influence and authority of this, the most recent of the revelations of truth to the mortal races of Urantia.******

 

[popsthebuilder]

.Do you think the falling away began at the time of the first century reformation? I call it the great tribulation one like never before or ever again. A time of great joy for some while others tribulation . In that way as you had said in another post ("There is scripture that speaks both for and against tradition.") the time period of sorting out the traditions of men .

First century reformation? Not really sure on that. I would think that so called Christianity being mandated by government could have been the begining of that, but that it is going strong now.

I think tribulation can be a personal thing and a hardship for whole groups of people.

 

[Grace Accepted]

How do I know what specifically? That the earth isn't 6,000 years old? That church men are just men and capable of all sorts of error?

You have faith and are saved apart from what you think of the Bible.

You keep posting your opinions with no corroboration. Anyone can do that. It is an easy thing to be right when you are the judge of your own "facts."

What about your own fantasies about numerous celestial beings appointed to the task of providing an "epochal" religious revelation.

 

[Grace Accepted]

That's not accurate. The UB claims authorship from a number of celestial personalities that are not Gods. The authors of the Jesus papers were on the earth long before Adam and are still here. They are not divine beings. The Urantia Papers were sanctioned by Gabriel, he's not a God although he's Michaels chief executive.

....."Let it be made clear that revelations are not necessarily inspired. The cosmology of these revelations is not inspired. It is limited by our permission for the co-ordination and sorting of present-day knowledge. While divine or spiritual insight is a gift, human wisdom must evolve.

101:4.3 Truth is always a revelation: autorevelation when it emerges as a result of the work of the indwelling Adjuster; epochal revelation when it is presented by the function of some other celestial agency, group, or personality.

101:4.4 In the last analysis, religion is to be judged by its fruits, according to the manner and the extent to which it exhibits its own inherent and divine excellence.

101:4.5 Truth may be but relatively inspired, even though revelation is invariably a spiritual phenomenon. While statements with reference to cosmology are never inspired, such revelations are of immense value in that they at least transiently clarify knowledge by:

1. The reduction of confusion by the authoritative elimination of error.
2. The co-ordination of known or about-to-be-known facts and observations.
3. The restoration of important bits of lost knowledge concerning epochal transactions in the distant past.
4. The supplying of information which will fill in vital missing gaps in otherwise earned knowledge.
5. Presenting cosmic data in such a manner as to illuminate the spiritual teachings contained in the accompanying revelation.


********5. The Urantia Papers. The papers, of which this is one, constitute the most recent presentation of truth to the mortals of Urantia. These papers differ from all previous revelations, for they are not the work of a single universe personality but a composite presentation by many beings. But no revelation short of the attainment of the Universal Father can ever be complete. All other celestial ministrations are no more than partial, transient, and practically adapted to local conditions in time and space. While such admissions as this may possibly detract from the immediate force and authority of all revelations, the time has arrived on Urantia when it is advisable to make such frank statements, even at the risk of weakening the future influence and authority of this, the most recent of the revelations of truth to the mortal races of Urantia.******

The book has numerous scientific errors, so I guess it is out also.

 

[Legroom]

You keep posting your opinions with no corroboration. Anyone can do that. It is an easy thing to be right when you are the judge of your own "facts."

What about your own fantasies about numerous celestial beings appointed to the task of providing an "epochal" religious revelation.

I asked you to be specific. But if you mean the age of the earth there is an abundance of verifiable dating techniques. You will dismiss them, and around and around we will go.

If the "written word" were taken with the understanding of how scripture books come into being, through imperfect holy men, their limited understanding, and the age in which they lived, then a person of faith could extract the spiritual teachings while allowing for updates.

Its not the "written word" that failed its intent, its the doctrine of inerrancy that has failed and in now a stumbling block.

 

[Legroom]

The book has numerous scientific errors, so I guess it is out also.

Not true, you got that idea from a skeptic site. Some things have not been verified and seem wrong. The distance to Andromeda is one such error in the UB. Some things were not know in 1934, considered wrong, but have since been proven right.

The Jesus story is superb and appeals to the heart.

 

[7thMoon]

Not true, you got that idea from a skeptic site. Some things have not been verified and seem wrong. The distance to Andromeda is one such error in the UB. Some things were not know in 1934, considered wrong, but have since been proven right.

The Jesus story is superb and appeals to the heart.

It is about as accurate as the Koran minus the smugness.

 

[Studyman]

It is a serious question. Here we have a book purported to be to be inspired by God who is said to be one and gave us the book so we could be one with Him and each other and yet we are as scattered and frayed rather than united as one against the enemy of our souls.

Now if we were one with God and each other it would extend well beyond shallow virtue signaling displays where we pretend that everyone's point of view is equal but are are actually rolling our eyes behind our flickering screens. God's singularity is one in thought and purpose, drawn to the pure light of absolute truth. That truth being revealed to us by the bible.

But instead we read texts that cut across our beliefs and, surprise, our beliefs trump scripture, but even that truth we obfuscate by rationalizing or dragging the text off into the tall weeds of Greek where we beat it to death with our toy sand shovels. Pretending to be Greek scholars is a favorite pass time here on the range. No, we can only take texts we approve of at face value, all others need to be processed at our internal re-education camp and made into some things else. The old "it is what it is and it is not something else" rue went out the window along time ago, after all what do biblical translators know anyway--they didn't ask me first!

I think that if we are all reading from the same book, we should be fairly close to being unified but, alas, the book had not changed us--we have changed it. Made it suite our needs. Of course even this is not the truth. The truth is, the book has not failed, we have.

Let us be broken n the Rock!

It seems the "Book" itself explains the reason for this phenomenon in the Examples which were written for our admonition, as Paul explains;

Rom. 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

There are a great many examples of this very thing through out the "Book", but the very first example set's the stage in my view.

Gen. 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

Here we have Eve who was shown "that which may be known of God". She saw the many Freedoms she had in God, and also saw the limits God placed on her and also knew the dangers of refusing to glorify God in this way. She had no excuse.

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

But to test her faith, God placed "another voice" in the garden who told her God was Lying to her. This "other voice" went on to offer her another religious philosophy, contrary to what her God had given her.

5. For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, (Transgress the Commandment) then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

So EVE, when given the choice between God, and the "other voice" which offered a much smoother religious philosophy, chose the "other voice" over God's.

So when Eve knew God, she didn't glorify Him as God by placing her trust in Him and His Word, and her foolish heart was darkened as Paul also tells us..

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, (All Contrary to what her God had told her) she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat,

"Professing herself to be wise, she became a fool,

"and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat."

And she shared this Philosophy with others which is how the serpent increases its power to deceive.

This same scenario is repeated over and over through out the entire "Book".

We also have examples of faithful men, who did Glorify God when they knew Him. Like Abraham who left the "other voice" and followed God as God instructed him. We have Shadrak, Meshack and "To bed we go", (As I used to read to my young daughter before bed) who refused the "other voice" even at risk of their own life.

Sadly though, men really don't believe in this God, nor His Freedoms that HE allows His people, nor the restrictions HE places on them for their own good, like Eve. Nor do they believe in the danger God tells them of, for rejecting His instruction.

They choose to believe instead, in the "other voice", which convinces them there is no death, and that God's instructions make them blind, burdens them, and they condemn believers as "Legalists" and such.

There is no Division between God/Christ and Abel, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Caleb, Joshua, Gideon, Alisha, Malachi,Peter, James, Paul, John, Cornelius etc., etc, AKA "The Body of Christ". These all chose to Glorify God when they knew Him, and rejected the "Other voice" in the garden.

It's really quite simple, and Prophesied. We just need to Glorify God, like His Son and the examples of faithful men did.

2 Cor. 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

4 For if he that cometh (the other voice) preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

I agree with you that the Bible isn't a failure. Men just need to Believe in the God which Speaks from it. And be "Doers" of the Word, like all the examples of those who Glorified God, and not just hearers, like Eve.

Great topic.

 

[Grace Accepted]

Not true, you got that idea from a skeptic site. Some things have not been verified and seem wrong. The distance to Andromeda is one such error in the UB. Some things were not know in 1934, considered wrong, but have since been proven right.

The Jesus story is superb and appeals to the heart.

It is true, you just don't want it to be. You want the bible to be wrong and so you say it is. You want the UB to be correct, so you say it is. The UB has no demonstratable truth.

So you believe that the formation of the solar system is consistent with the Chamberlin-Moulton planetesimal hypothesis?

 

[Legroom]

It is true, you just don't want it to be. You want the bible to be wrong and so you say it is. You want the UB to be correct, so you say it is. The UB has no demonstratable truth.

So you believe that the formation of the solar system is consistent with the Chamberlin-Moulton planetesimal hypothesis?

The Chamberlin-Moulton planetesimal hypothesis has a star pass by and disgorge material from the sun. In the UB an entire system passed by, the Angona system.

Plenty of Christians apart from the UB gave up on the Israelites fabricated story of their origins.

 

[Grace Accepted]

The Chamberlin-Moulton planetesimal hypothesis has a star pass by and disgorge material from the sun. In the UB an entire system passed by, the Angona system.

Plenty of Christians apart from the UB gave up on the Israelites fabricated story of their origins.

More have given up on the UB being anything but fiction.

 

[The_drake_]

The coming together will also be accompanied by a significant falling away. (2 Thess 2:3) The actual point of this post is to point out that not all "truths" are equal and that a great sign that you are hearing false teaching is the amount of effort the teacher has to put in to change the obvious meaning of the text. Another tell is when the teacher claims that bible translators all got it wrong but that they have the actual real meaning of the text.

Well it depends. Some of the textual alchemy the RCC has come up with is really wild and obviously false. If you need an intricate understanding of Aristotle et al to understand a non-greek religious text purported to be from God (when Aristotle can be understood on his own, I mean really people), either it isn't from God or you've gone wrong somewhere (I obviously fall on the side of them being wrong). That being said I still like reading it because it is absolutely fascinating stuff, and you never go wrong contemplating the divine.

On the other hand some modern American sola scriptura orgs definitely pretend objectivity while looking at the text through a high-power-all-American lens, projecting into a text just as much non-existent 'stuff' and stretching it to breaking point.

Personally, I think there should be a conscious precautionary effort to be aware of the context in which scripture was written, while at the same time acknowledging the limits of even such precautions. Such knowledge should be used as a guard only, to prevent basic errors. If contextual understanding is incomplete (it always is) one should not try to fill in gaps on their own or hold guesses at writers motivations as facts (this is often how people fall into error or human centered doctrine).

Above all a general acknowledgement of humility and fallibility is the best guard against falling into error. Sometimes this will leave question unanswered, as it was always meant to be.