Is The Bible A Failure?

[Grace Accepted]

Here, let me remind you. You were preaching that in Jesus Time on Earth, there were "MANY" who were Prophesying in His Name. That there were "MANY" calling Him Lord, Lord, which were casting out devils in His Name and "Many" doing wonderful works in His Name.

This never happened. It is just another windmill you tilt at.

When I asked for even one Scripture which might bring at least some validation to your religious philosophy, you turned on me, and provided nothing from God's Word to support for your own preaching.

I never preached that.
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For instance, some voice has convinced you there were "MANY" who called Jesus Lord, Lord, who were Prophesying in His Name, before HIS Death and Resurrection. Of course this is foolishness, and the Scriptures don't even imply such a thing. And yet, you will defend this religious philosophy to the point of ridiculing and insulting anyone who would challenge it.

This is your strawman. I have never been concerned with it. My point has always been that these men are rejected by Christ because He didn't know them and not because of what they did. That is it, nothing more. That is as simple as I can get it.

Another defensive, and spiritually dead response to a perfectly valid question.

How is that question valid?

It's really simple GA. If a man is Preaching in Christ's Name, but lives in Transgression of God's Commandments, Jesus doesn't know him.

This is precisely what I have been saying all along. The issue isn't the transgression it is not knowing Christ. You can't get to know Christ by obeying Him because you will never obey him if you don't know Him.

I asked you if you believed the Mainstream Preachers of Jesus were "wise" or "Unwise" based in the Teaching of Jesus regarding the hearers of His Word VS the "doers" of His Word.

Of course you won't answer, just as you refuse answer how a man can be casting our devils in Jesus Name, if Jesus doesn't even know them.

How could I guess who you think mainstream preachers are? The term obviously has some sort of meaning to you but I don't know what that is. Your focus on works and obedience is like railing against a crippled man because he is not walking correctly. If he would only straighten up and walk correctly He wouldn't be crippled anymore.

Certainly, a physically healthy man can walk correctly but if a man is crippled He cannot matter how adamantly you demand it. They don't need haranguing like that, they need healing.

The Whole point of this Chapter, in my view, is to warn of People who "SAY" they are serving God, when they are not. Religious men who "SAY" Jesus is their LORD, but do not "do" what HE says. Religious men who "Claim" to Prophesy in Christ's Name, doing all manner of "good" works in Christ's Name, but inside are Lawless and "ravening wolves."

It is quite obvious that the men who cried Lord, Lord considered themselves as doing God's will just as you do, but were they? Are you? Warning a crippled man that he is walking incorrectly is of no use.

I can claim to know Jesus every day. The demons also claim to know Jesus every day. Neither they, nor I am made perfect because I "SAY" I know God/Jesus. Even if I do know God, if I don't Glorify Him as God, my foolish heart will be darkened. And I might actually become convinced that there were "MANY" folks in Jerusalem Prophesying in Jesus Name, and Casting our devils in Jesus Name while HE was there in the flesh.

I make no claims, I accept God's word for it. Through Jesus' one sacrifice I was made perfect forever while being mad Holy. Even as I converse with you I feel the Holy SPirit checking me. I am progressing in Christ daily and I am because He is.

"Many" have been convinced of many things that the Scriptures, taken as a whole, does not support. " If you do know him, you are made perfect forever."

You "SAY" this, but you reject all the Scriptures which are linked to this.

I know you believe that but it is not true.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, (Lawless) and unto every good work reprobate.

Do you not see. This is exactly what I have been saying. If God has made you whole, healed you and filled your heart with good, then good will come out. If you remain in darkness because you love it more than light, only evil will come out. This is exactly what the text is saying. The works are the indicator and not the cause of your salvation status.

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, (Lawless) is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

This reiterates the point. You can't get to know him by keeping His commandments, just like you can't make a dead man come to life by moving his body. However, we can know if a man is alive if He moves his body.

Rom. 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: (Lawful) otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

This doubles down on my point. WHo's goodness, not yours, not mine. We continue in His goodness. We continue in Christ's righteousness.

There is a fundamental disconnect between the religions of this world, and the teachings of the God of the Bible. It has always existed, and it will continue to exist.

Forget about it, you can't change that. Concentrate on being an ambassador of God's reconciliation. Preaching to those who do not want righteousness is a waste of time.

This should suffice. Your posts are way too long.

 

[Mr E]

It's not the condition of Jesus Christ. There is a reason God was his Father. He did not inherit the sinful condition (sin nature) all the rest of us inherited from Adam. Jesus Christ was just like Adam was before Adam sinned. Adam sinned, condemning himself and all his progeny to death. Jesus Christ did not sin, then gave his life as the only acceptable sacrifice for the sinful condition and sins of man.


They refer to the man Jesus. Jesus, the man, is the Son of God.

Not even close.

Is God your Father, friend? Does God being your Father make you the Son of God?

It doesn’t. The Son of God is spirit as the Father is Spirit. Spirit gives birth to spirit, flesh gives birth to flesh.

 

[The_drake_]

It's not impossible to resolve.

The Bible explicitly states in several places that Jesus Christ did not sin.

Mr. E. insists that Jesus sinned.

Either Mr. E. is wrong or the Bible is wrong.

If that is impossible for some people to resolve, that's on them.

I agree with you that his approach is wrong.

I am also in agreement with him that it is hard to figure given the traditional understanding of original sin.

However I disagree with him that his own understanding of that doctrine of OG Sin gives him ground so solid as to be able to displace what is directly stated (was without sin).

It is a reasonable question to ask, but we do not have an a good answer, that doesn't mean we start throwing out facts till everything fits with our preconceived notion/theory.

Some questions don't have answers. How he could have been without sin but born of woman is one of those questions, as is evidenced by the fact that theologians have poured out a Mediterranean Seas worth of ink and several European forests worth of animal skin used up trying to resolve the issue over the past 2000 years.

 

[shroom]

Not even close.

It is the truth.

Is God your Father, friend?

Through the new birth, yes.

Does God being your Father make you the Son of God?

I am -a- son of God (1 John 3:1-2). Jesus Christ is THE Son of God, the only human being literally fathered by God.

It doesn’t. The Son of God is spirit as the Father is Spirit. Spirit gives birth to spirit, flesh gives birth to flesh.

Jesus said HE was the Son of God, not the spirit within him. Matt 26:63-64

 

[The_drake_]

Interesting point. Sometimes just knowing it works is okay: yet we are curious beings, wanting to work it out!

Yes, but that is simply another form of greed. It is repeated over and over that you have to trust. If we knew everything, we'd never need trust. Trust is having confidence in someone or something without perfect knowledge or understanding of what they have done, are doing, or will do.

 

[shroom]

Some questions don't have answers. How he could have been without sin but born of woman is one of those questions, as is evidenced by the fact that theologians have poured out a Mediterranean Seas worth of ink and several European forests worth of animal skin used up trying to resolve the issue over the past 2000 years.

While I do believe that we will not understand some things until Christ returns, I believe God wants us to know our condition, how we got this way, and how Jesus Christ provided salvation for us. He wants the eyes of our understanding to be enlightened (Eph 1:18), He wants us to come to the understanding of the truth (1 Tim 2:5).

 

[The_drake_]

While I do believe that we will not understand some things until Christ returns, I believe God wants us to know our condition, how we got this way, and how Jesus Christ provided salvation for us. He wants the eyes of our understanding to be enlightened (Eph 1:18), He wants us to come to the understanding of the truth (1 Tim 2:5).

Then may that be well with you. All I know is the inability to accept the limits of understanding or tolerate mystery leads men to ruin, it is as true of the greatest scientists as it is the religious.

 

[shroom]

Then may that be well with you. All I know is the inability to accept the limits of understanding or tolerate mystery leads men to ruin, it is as true of the greatest scientists as it is the religious.

thanks, and the same to you.

We are to keep searching, keep asking. God wants us to know the truth.

 

[The_drake_]

thanks, and the same to you.

We are to keep searching, keep asking. God wants us to know the truth.

He wants us to know that we can trust him. As for truth, that's for the next world.

But I do as we all do find enjoyment in speculation. It should never get to the point we're making declarations about anything not written, or which contravenes what is written.

 

[shroom]

While I do believe that we will not understand some things until Christ returns, I believe God wants us to know our condition, how we got this way, and how Jesus Christ provided salvation for us. He wants the eyes of our understanding to be enlightened (Eph 1:18), He wants us to come to the understanding of the truth (1 Tim 2:5).

Oops... I just noticed I should have referenced 1 Tim 2:4 instead of 5. The edit window expired long ago....

 

[Studyman]

You are not listening. There is nothing in the narrative that indicates Jesus admonished them for casting out demons. I will try to state this in very simple terms.

I never implied anything to the Contrary. Show me where i did? I simply asked you a question, but you won't answer.

I asked how this man can be casting out devils in Jesus Name, if Jesus didn't know him. A simple and prudent question. I can't understand why you are so afraid to answer a simple, prudent question.

1. No man will be with God in heaven who loves darkness and loves sin.
2. No man who loves God loves sin.
3. We are set free from sin by the blood of Jesus Christ and made perfect forever whilst being made holy.
4. No man can stop sinning apart from God's power.
5. We identify foolish men by their ignoring of God.
6. We identify wise men by their adhering to God

No evil man can do good because goodness comes from a good heart.

No man can change his heart. Salvation is for the sinner. It is to save them from sin by not counting their sins against them and removing their heart of stone and replacing it with a heart of flesh. As God does this good work in us, our hearts he will change and so our behavior will change because goodness is in our hearts but we didn't put it there, he did.

The idea that God demands obedience and will reward us for it or kill us for not doing so, is not who God is. God will save everyone who does not resist him and He will put a new heart in the filled with His righteousness. Right behavior will follow.

We are not damned because of bad behavior and we are not saved due to good behavior but bad behavior issues forth from dark hearts and good behavior shines from good hearts. So the saints will progressively be made holier and holier by Him working in them while still being counted as perfect forever.

Sinners will get darker and darker with sinful behaviors like black bile coming forth from their dark hearts.

I didn't ask for a sermon from you. I asked a simple Question. Concerning the Word's of the Jesus of the Bible "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? "

You are preaching, in Christ's Name, that Jesus is talking about speaking face to face with "MANY" men who were in Jerusalem when HE was in Jerusalem. That there were "MANY" men calling Jesus Lord, Lord, and casting our devils in Jesus Name, before Jesus was even murdered.

I simply asked for you to provide me with the Scriptures which brought you to this conclusion.

I believe Jesus reference to "In That Day" refers to a future time, at His Return as Judge of the Quick and the Dead, and have provided several Scriptures which brought me to that Conclusion.

You ignored the Scriptures I posted, and implied that I was stupid, and couldn't listen. But you refused to answer the questions I asked for me to hear.

I'm not arguing with you regarding your judgment of me being ignorant, and unable to grasp your superior intellect. I simply want to know the Scriptures that teaches there were "MANY" men in Jerusalem calling Jesus Lord, Lord, and teaching in HIS name, before HE Ascended.

 

[Grace Accepted]

I never implied anything to the Contrary. Show me where i did? I simply asked you a question, but you won't answer.

I asked how this man can be casting out devils in Jesus' Name if Jesus didn't know him. A simple and prudent question. I can't understand why you are so afraid to answer a simple, prudent question.

Sorry, I had anticipated that you would recognize from the narrative that Jesus did not reveal information on that. I suspect it was because that was not germane to the point He was making which was that these people thought that they were saved because of their good works when in fact they were lost because they did not know him and He did not know them.

As far as your specific question goes, which is off-topic, The people asked Jesus, "have we not prophesied in Thy name, and in Thy name have cast out devils, and in Thy name done many wonderful works?" Jesus did not answer that question. He neither denied it nor ratified it.

I didn't ask for a sermon from you. I asked a simple Question. Concerning the Word's of the Jesus of the Bible "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? "

Since you give sermons with almost all of your posts, you should expect some in return.

You are preaching, in Christ's Name, that Jesus is talking about speaking face to face with "MANY" men who were in Jerusalem when HE was in Jerusalem. That there were "MANY" men calling Jesus Lord, Lord, and casting our devils in Jesus Name, before Jesus was even murdered.

This is purely your imagination if it is what you believe.

I simply asked for you to provide me with the Scriptures which brought you to this conclusion.

Since the premise of your question is false, the question is invalid.

I believe Jesus referred to "In That Day" refers to a future time, at His Return as Judge of the Quick and the Dead, and have provided several

Scriptures which brought me to that Conclusion.

You ignored the Scriptures I posted and implied that I was stupid, and couldn't listen. But you refused to answer the questions I asked for me to hear.

I'm not arguing with you regarding your judgment of me being ignorant and unable to grasp your superior intellect. I simply want to know the Scriptures that teach there were "MANY" men in Jerusalem calling Jesus Lord, Lord, and teaching in HIS name before HE Ascended.

This question only supports the fact that you are having trouble grasping what I post. You imply that it is due to a lesser intelligence but I have never made that application.

There could be many reasons that have nothing to do with intelligence. At any rate, you are pursuing a false premise, one that really has nothing to do with the main thrust of our conversation.

We are not saved by any good works we do. We are saved by Jesus Christ's death on the cross. We are justified by His life. We are raised to newness of life by His resurrection and sanctified by receiving a new heart full of Goodness and able to do the good works He has prepared for us beforehand.

Our works are only a result of the condition of our hearts.