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If Jesus was the One who took away sins from the world?

shroom said:
Many Christians are convinced that if a person does not accept the unknowable mystery of the Trinity that he cannot be saved.
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There are things that man does not know. Yet man doesn't even know that he doesn't know of something until he learns of that thing which he did not know. For example, the written word.

A child does not know that they do not even know that the words they speak can be written until they learn of that which they did know, being that spoken words can be written.

However, merely learning about that which they didn't know doesn't mean that they now know how to write the words they speak or read the words that are written. They simply know that words can be written at which point they can begin obtaining knowledge of the written word.

When it comes to the trinity, they explain how the doctrine originated:

The Fathers of the Church distinguish between theology (theologia) and economy (oikonomia). "Theology" refers to the mystery of God's inmost life within the Blessed Trinity and "economy" to all the works by which God reveals himself and communicates his life. Through the oikonomia the theologia is revealed to us; but conversely, the theologia illuminates the whole oikonomia. God's works reveal who he is in himself; the mystery of his inmost being enlightens our understanding of all his works. So it is, analogously, among human persons. A person discloses himself in his actions, and the better we know a person, the better we understand his actions.

The dogma of the trinity doesn't represent that it is unknowable mystery but rather that it is a mystery of faith that can only be revealed by God. So there is a big difference between an unknowable mystery and the mystery of faith. I would suggest a more perfection explanation of the mystery of faith is found in Deuteronomy 29:29, but again merely learning of that which one didn't know doesn't mean that they know about that which they didn't know.
 
Jasher said:
The question was in reference to your statement to Jesus being the Lamb who was slain before the foundations of the world. The question was how Jesus was slain from the foundation of the world if the world is eternal.

The basis of the question regards what existed prior to the universe. I think that term 'Lamb' is being used symbolically in scripture, which I think you will agree with. However, I am not sure if we will agree on what the "Lamb" represents. Regardless, in order for the Lamb to have been slain from the foundation of the world, it would by implication infer that the Lamb existed prior to the beginning of the universe. Would you agree?
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Not if God had a plan to bring forth a lamb instead, before having created the world in case anything did go wrong. The Lamb could have been in Gods mind, having prepared to send the Word that became the Lamb - or became Flesh.

Right? Like Abraham who brought his son to be slain, and God stopped him?
 
MatthewG said:
Not if God had a plan to bring forth a lamb instead, before having created the world in case anything did go wrong. The Lamb could have been in Gods mind, having prepared to send the Word that became the Lamb - or became Flesh.
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Wouldn't an omniscient being know if something was wrong with his creation before he created it?
MatthewG said:
Right? Like Abraham who brought his son to be slain, and God stopped him?
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You mean when God tempted Abraham to offer Isaac as a burnt offering? While Paul said to let no man that is tempted say I am tempted of God since God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempts he any man, yet Jesus said to the Jews that believed in him. "Now ye seek to kill me, a man who a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. [John 8:40] Ask yourself, was it God that told the prophet to offer his son up as a burnt offering?

Also note the similarities between these two accounts:

Genesis 22
1 And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am. 2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of. 3 And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him.
11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.

Numbers 22
20 And God came unto Balaam at night, and said unto him, If the men come to call thee, rise up, and go with them; but yet the word which I shall say unto thee, that shalt thou do. 21 And Balaam rose up in the morning, and saddled his ass, and went with the princes of Moab. 22 And God's anger was kindled because he went: and the angel of the LORD stood in the way for an adversary against him. Now he was riding upon his ass, and his two servants were with him.
32 And the angel of the LORD said unto him, Wherefore hast thou smitten thine ass these three times? behold, I went out to withstand thee, because thy way is perverse before me:

So do you really think God stopped Abraham or was it the angel of the LORD?
 
Jasher said:
So do you really think God stopped Abraham or was it the angel of the LORD?
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It was the Angel of the Lord who saw the faith of God working in Abraham.
The same one who told Peter this...
King James Bible
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
 
1Mind1Spirit said:
God didn't send Justin Case.
He sent Jesus Christ.
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While quite humorous might not be accurate. Justin is a masculine given name in the anglicized form of the Latin given name Justinus, a derivative of Justus.

And Jesus, which is called Justus, who are of the circumcision. These only are my fellowworkers unto the kingdom of God, which have been a comfort unto me. Col 4:11
 
1Mind1Spirit said:
It was the Angel of the Lord who saw the faith of God working in Abraham.
The same one who told Peter this...
King James Bible
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
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Is that why he then charged his disciples they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.?
 
Jasher said:
While quite humorous might not be accurate. Justin is a masculine given name in the anglicized form of the Latin given name Justinus, a derivative of Justus.

And Jesus, which is called Justus, who are of the circumcision. These only are my fellowworkers unto the kingdom of God, which have been a comfort unto me. Col 4:11
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:ROFLMAO: Let God be true and every man a liar. :)
 
1Mind1Spirit said:
:ROFLMAO: Let God be true and every man a liar. :)
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God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, Rom 3:4

I said in my haste, All men are liars. Ps 116:11

Or else why would you believe what man wrote.
 
Jasher said:
God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, Rom 3:4

I said in my haste, All men are liars. Ps 116:11

Or else why would you believe what man wrote.
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That's why what I said was accurate.
hThat thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
 
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