Embracing Doctrinal Diversity - Unity in diversity

[Mattathias]

I launched a topic on the subject.
Not sure if it will stand or be removed. Here's the link;

Defining the godhead - an open discussion on Unitarianism, Binitarianism and Trinitarianism

From my perspective, unitarianism, binitarianism and trinitarianism are doctrines that attempt to define a view of God. These terms DO NOT represent THREE different gods as some posit. IMHO Standard definitions: unitarianism The doctrines of Unitarians. The belief in a single God, not...

whitehorseforums.com

] cc: @Mr E

It doesn’t violate the rules of the forum. Why wouldn’t it stand?

 

[Mr E]

“Sincerity does not protect you from theological error. Keep your face buried in the Scriptures.” - Brandon Scalf

Trinitarianism, binitarianism, much of unitarianism and Gnosticism are all post-biblical theologies.

The theology of Jesus of Nazareth - Jewish monotheism - is biblical theology.

Jesus opposed Moses and those religious leaders (Jews all) --those experts in Moses' law. He was not a religious Jew. He taught against Judaism, confronting their error right in front of their noses-- right in their synagogues and at the temple itself.

 

[Mr E]

Jesus quoted the Sh’ma as the most important commandment, which is a unitarian statement of faith as he was required to believe, being born a Jew under the law.

He quoted the Sh'ma when asked about the Law. You get that don't you?

The question he was asked is-- 'What is the most important commandment in the Law?' (Matt 22:35)

And one of them, an expert in religious law, asked him a question to test him: “Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?

You might have expected him to list one of the ten. You know? Like- Which one of the ten commandments is the most important? But he doesn't even go to the list of ten that Moses declared. Instead, he says to the religious expert-- a Pharisee--- referencing their law, which went beyond that original list of ten... He quotes from their law-- and directly to a place where Moses is talking specifically about Yahweh- the elohim of their father. Deut 6:3

This is going to be of utmost importance later, when Jesus goes on to say who their father is.

Jesus also taught us to pray ONLY to the Father, ONLY those who worship the Father worship truly, and said his Father is THE ONLY TRUE GOD.

Yes. Exactly.

 

[Mr E]

He could not have been more clear. Yet there are still so many who- just like the religious Jewish monotheists (Pharisees) did-- missed entirely what he was saying. Let's talk about the God of their father.

They said---

"We have only one Father, God (Yahweh) himself.”

Jesus replied, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come from God and am now here. I have not come on my own initiative, but he sent me. Why don’t you understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot accept my teaching. You people are from your father the devil, and you want to do what your father desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not uphold the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he lies, he speaks according to his own nature because he is a liar and the father of lies.

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus opposed Moses

That’s a bold statement there, especially in light of Jesus saying he did not come to abolish the law.

My take is that Jesus is the fulfillment of Ez 36:26-27 and Jeremiah 31:32-34, where we are given a new heart with God’s Spirit and a new covenant.

Saw my granddaughter over the weekend. She’s 3. It’s not that diapers are bad but she’s quickly getting to the point she will not need them. No one opposes them but their time has come.

Paul wrote of this in Romans 7.

 

[Wrangler]

He quoted the Sh'ma when asked about the Law. You get that don't you?

The question he was asked is-- 'What is the most important commandment in the Law?' (Matt 22:35)

Yes, I get it. That’s why I posted it AND posted it first among the proofs of what God Jesus believed in.

Jesus believed YHWH, the only true God of Scripture, is his God. What name was hallowed, when we pray to our Father? YHWH.

Trinitarians want to deny God his name. They want to replace it with a god if their own making. The audacity to claim the servant Jesus is the master, all mighty God, YHWH, is outrageous considering explicit Scripture.

 

[SteVen]

That’s a bold statement there, especially in light of Jesus saying he did not come to abolish the law.

That's a famous misquote. Or should I say infamous?
You put a period after the word "law." What happened to "or the prophets"?
And what does it mean to not abolish but to fulfill? See Luke 24:44 below.

Jesus came to fulfill the prophecies about himself in
the BOOKS of the Law and the BOOKS of the Prophets. AND the Psalms.

Matthew 5:17 NIV
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets;
I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

COMPARE - Jesus explains Matthew 5:17 (note "the Prophets" in verse 17 above)

Luke 24:44 NIV
He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you:
Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in
the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

]

 

[SteVen]

Trinitarians want to deny God his name. They want to replace it with a god if their own making. The audacity to claim the servant Jesus is the master, all mighty God, YHWH, is outrageous considering explicit Scripture.

What do you suppose Jesus meant by this?

Mark 10:18 NIV
“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.

Luke 18:19 NIV
“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.

'

 

[SteVen]

Jesus opposed Moses and those religious leaders (Jews all) --those experts in Moses' law. He was not a religious Jew. He taught against Judaism, confronting their error right in front of their noses-- right in their synagogues and at the temple itself.

Reminded me of this.

John 5:45 NRSVue
Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father;
your accuser is Moses, on whom you have set your hope.

]

 

[Mr E]

That’s a bold statement there, especially in light of Jesus saying he did not come to abolish the law.

My take is that Jesus is the fulfillment of Ez 36:26-27 and Jeremiah 31:32-34, where we are given a new heart with God’s Spirit and a new covenant.

Saw my granddaughter over the weekend. She’s 3. It’s not that diapers are bad but she’s quickly getting to the point she will not need them. No one opposes them but their time has come.

Paul wrote of this in Romans 7.

He didn't come to abolish the law. That's obvious. If he did, it would have been obvious also, that he somehow failed in his mission. He didn't.

He let them have the law they loved... and he taught them about the Father they didn't know.

 

[Mr E]

Yes, I get it. That’s why I posted it AND posted it first among the proofs of what God Jesus believed in.

Jesus believed YHWH, the only true God of Scripture, is his God. What name was hallowed, when we pray to our Father? YHWH.

Trinitarians want to deny God his name. They want to replace it with a god if their own making. The audacity to claim the servant Jesus is the master, all mighty God, YHWH, is outrageous considering explicit Scripture.

I don't think that many people capture the significance of what he was saying... He's talking about the God of their fathers, and he's telling them point blank, that that one (Yahweh) is not his Father. He's declaring their father to be the devil, while calling Yahweh the devil's God.

It's the deception once again of the translators- who decide that Theos must mean Yahweh. It doesn't. In the passages that Jesus references it's specifically detailing the God (elohim) of their father is Yahweh. Don't miss this.

The religious monotheists-- their Father is the devil.
Their Father's God is Yahweh. Moses' God.

Does Jesus ever say-- My Father is Yahweh? No-- he tells them that they don't have the same Father and Jesus says his Father is the only God.

 

[Wrangler]

The religious monotheists-- their Father is the devil.
Their Father's God is Yahweh. Moses' God.

Does Jesus ever say-- My Father is Yahweh? No-- he tells them that they don't have the same Father and Jesus says his Father is the only God.

We’ll obviously have to disagree on this point.