Does the holy spirit leave me if I sin?

[MatthewG]

My thoughts are the Holy Spirit is within you 24/7 if you accept faith. You have a choice or not if you allow the spirit of Christ in you to react or you react in your flesh which is a choice.

I also agree with Bradley about killing the spirit with you in you possibly by continually making a lust after the fleshly desire opposed to the spiritual desires; you can quench the spirit to a degree.

Also if you renounce faith all together that would probably suggest the rejection of the home spirit and going back to being spiritually dead without God.

 

[patrick jane]

My thoughts are the Holy Spirit is within you 24/7 if you accept faith. You have a choice or not if you allow the spirit of Christ in you to react or you react in your flesh which is a choice.

I also agree with Bradley about killing the spirit with you in you possibly by continually making a lust after the fleshly desire opposed to the spiritual desires; you can quench the spirit to a degree.

Also if you renounce faith all together that would probably suggest the rejection of the home spirit and going back to being spiritually dead without God.

Agreed, yet what I and another person said was that if we are sinning and/or not walking in the spirit, the spirit is not "active" in us at those times. I agree, it's not like the holy spirit leaves us so we do have Him still in us.

 

[Bladerunner]

The letter is to Timothy. Paul wanted Timothy to come to him quickly.

No, the second letter to TImothy was to help him deal with the problems at Thessalonica for there had been a forged letter (from Paul) that started all kinds of problems. Paul just wanted his friends around him in his last hours and very few came.

I'm not sure of your point here. Yes, Demas forsook Paul, having loved the present world.

There seem to be a falling out for it appears that Demas was with Paul at the prison and suddenly left.

What do you suppose Paul was referring to?

This question refers to what I think Paul was referring to that Dema did not lose faith in Jesus Christ but for some reason Demas hurt Paul....I would think this is common for a friend to hurt another friend. I think this was what Paul was talking about.

I will say there is many who believe the same as you do. Demas was never a saved believer. Here are some verses that allude to that..2 Tim 4:8,10..1 John 2:15, Mat 13:22, psalm 28:8, 1 John 2:19 and Mat 7:22-23

How do you know Demas was saved on the day of Acts 2?

It seems that Demas was also a fellow worker of Luke and Mark (Phi 1:24).....If he was a fellow worker of these two, the likelyhood that He was also present on the day of pentecost (Acts 2) where three thousand including the apostles were justified and received the Holy Spirit... Just depends on how one sees Demas' justification status.

Blade

 

[Bladerunner]

My thoughts are the Holy Spirit is within you 24/7 if you accept faith. You have a choice or not if you allow the spirit of Christ in you to react or you react in your flesh which is a choice.

I also agree with Bradley about killing the spirit with you in you possibly by continually making a lust after the fleshly desire opposed to the spiritual desires; you can quench the spirit to a degree.

Also if you renounce faith all together that would probably suggest the rejection of the home spirit and going back to being spiritually dead without God.

according to scripture there is no going back.....Jesus tells us He will lose NONE of whom the father has given him
John 6:39.."And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day."

Blade

 

[shroom]

No, the second letter to TImothy was to help him deal with the problems at Thessalonica for there had been a forged letter (from Paul) that started all kinds of problems. Paul just wanted his friends around him in his last hours and very few came.

I'm not sure where you get all that from... Paul was writing to Timothy and said: "Do thy diligence to come shortly unto me:".

There seem to be a falling out for it appears that Demas was with Paul at the prison and suddenly left.

This question refers to what I think Paul was referring to that Dema did not lose faith in Jesus Christ but for some reason Demas hurt Paul....I would think this is common for a friend to hurt another friend. I think this was what Paul was talking about.

It's possible. But Paul said Demas forsook him "having loved this present world". To me, it's saying Demas left the faith.

I will say there is many who believe the same as you do. Demas was never a saved believer.

Are you saying that YOU think Demas was never a saved believer, or that you think I believe Demas was never a saved believer?

To be clear, I believe Demas was absolutely saved and we will see him at the rapture. This addresses the point I was making about perseverance vs permanence. I do not think Demas persevered in the faith, but I do believe he was saved, and salvation for Christians is permanent.

Here are some verses that allude to that..2 Tim 4:8,10..1 John 2:15, Mat 13:22, psalm 28:8, 1 John 2:19 and Mat 7:22-23

It seems that Demas was also a fellow worker of Luke and Mark (Phi 1:24).....If he was a fellow worker of these two, the likelyhood that He was also present on the day of pentecost (Acts 2) where three thousand including the apostles were justified and received the Holy Spirit... Just depends on how one sees Demas' justification status.

Blade

I think that believing Demas was present on the day of Pentecost is pure speculation. Nothing in the text even suggests it.

 

[Bladerunner]

I'm not sure where you get all that from... Paul was writing to Timothy and said: "Do thy diligence to come shortly unto me:".


It's possible. But Paul said Demas forsook him "having loved this present world". To me, it's saying Demas left the faith.


Are you saying that YOU think Demas was never a saved believer, or that you think I believe Demas was never a saved believer?

To be clear, I believe Demas was absolutely saved and we will see him at the rapture. This addresses the point I was making about perseverance vs permanence. I do not think Demas persevered in the faith, but I do believe he was saved, and salvation for Christians is permanent.


I think that believing Demas was present on the day of Pentecost is pure speculation. Nothing in the text even suggests it.

There were three thousand that day who were saved.....this included Luke and Mark.....and Demas was a fellow worker....Yes, it is speculation on my part but a good bet he was.



Blade

 

[shroom]

There were three thousand that day who were saved.....this included Luke and Mark.....and Demas was a fellow worker....Yes, it is speculation on my part but a good bet he was.

Thanks.

In Acts 4:4 another 5,000 were saved.

In Acts 21:20, there were many thousands of Jews who believed. (not sure if Demas was a Jew. Maybe not.. "Demas" sounds like a Greek name. But I don't know.)

Do you have a response to the rest of my post?

 

[MatthewG]

according to scripture there is no going back.....Jesus tells us He will lose NONE of whom the father has given him
John 6:39.."And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day."

Blade

Even in heaven I believe God is calling out to those outside the kingdom. I don’t really believe in once saved always saved if a person can renounce their faith. Say a tragic event happens and they lose faith. Or a person was lied to in a church setting from false doctrine of man and they were maligned and they just stop seeking after God. These are not out of the realm of possibilities. Those are my thoughts. There will be reward give of resurrection to unbelievers and believers; the reward is less though for unbelievers which a choice predicated on the individual themselves.

 

[MatthewG]

Of course I always could also be wrong.

 

[MatthewG]

Agreed, yet what I and another person said was that if we are sinning and/or not walking in the spirit, the spirit is not "active" in us at those times. I agree, it's not like the holy spirit leaves us so we do have Him still in us.

Also agreed here; it would be a choice of reacting in the flesh and not spirit which is a choice of the believer. There are times we do end up messing up say being hateful to a neighbour if we are stressed or tired, so glad you get what is being said.

 

[Bladerunner]

Even in heaven I believe God is calling out to those outside the kingdom. I don’t really believe in once saved always saved if a person can renounce their faith. Say a tragic event happens and they lose faith. Or a person was lied to in a church setting from false doctrine of man and they were maligned and they just stop seeking after God. These are not out of the realm of possibilities. Those are my thoughts. There will be reward give of resurrection to unbelievers and believers; the reward is less though for unbelievers which a choice predicated on the individual themselves.

well as I have stated, Jesus said He would not lose anyone whom His Father has given him.. this could be taken in different ways?? The "elect" in my opinion, are not all taken at the Rapture. These left behind would fit into your view and would simply not be saved at the time of their transgressions but will later be saved in the tribulations....

another way to look at this is that GOD tells us that Man is so deprived that He by himself will not seek out GOD....Simply because He seeks Him out doe snot mean He is saved, but He does tell us, the elect are called. Again, this might be in earlier years of ones life and in later years, Justification would occur OR NOT!......

We are also told the Gospel of Jesus at 1 COr 15:1-2.... and then verses 3 and 4. Notice how it says"according to scripture(s) plural....not just one or two verses but many....In fact, I do not believe I could believe in Jesus Christ had the OT not been written for the prophecies of Jesus Christ would not be available.

There are a lot of so-called christian in name only and many of these are good people who have been lead astray...If only the ones He calls seek Him out, then does He turn these away......I think not but rather I think, the tribulations as has bee stated will be the biggest evangelization the world has ever seem. However, these people will in fact have to lose their heads (lives) for Jesus Christ. They are known as the Tribulation Saints.

Thanks for the question

Blade

 

[Bladerunner]

Thanks.

In Acts 4:4 another 5,000 were saved.

In Acts 21:20, there were many thousands of Jews who believed. (not sure if Demas was a Jew. Maybe not.. "Demas" sounds like a Greek name. But I don't know.)

Do you have a response to the rest of my post?

No...seems you and I have said our peace!

Blade