Continual Continuity

[Grace Accepted]

Greetings again Grace Accepted,

The rejected at the judgement seat will experience some suffering and later the second death. The majority of people are not subject to the judgement, but simply live their lives and die and return to the dust Genesis 3:19.

Kind regards
Trevor

That is probably what will happen. Here is the way I understand what the bible teaches. The first text to consider comes from Christ's only recorded conversation with a theologian excluding the entrapments many of them tried on Jesus.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

This seems to indicate that we are in a condemned state until we believe on Jesus. So our natural state is is death to God (passively condemned). If left in this state our physical death is the end of our existence. So in essence It is not God killing us, it is us choosing not to live. Choosing to reject the life Christ came to offer this dying planet. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 1 John 5:12

Paul echo's this thought in Romans 8:1, There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Outside of Christ we default to our natural state which is physical temporal life only. So it is a lie that God kills those who don't obey him or those who reject his love. His love is Christ and Christ is eternal life offered to all dying souls. Like Noah's ark of safety, Jesus is the Ark of safety for a lost and dying world and all are invited to look and to live.

I believe that Jesus Christ shows us how God feels about those who reject the eternal life he offers them through His son. Matthew 23:37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing."


So yes, people who reject God die, but God it is not God's will nor is it God killing them, it is their rejection of his eternal life that results in their eternal death.

However, to your point about those who face the Judgement seat. Before being released to the die according to their choice some will stand before God to receive justice for the pain, destruction, and malevolence they wrought upon others.

 

[Mr G Lee]

Greetings again Grace Accepted,

I need to apologise for my statements, partly I could have misunderstood what you were asking. Either an indirect answer or a breaking down of whether OSAS is correct and also the word you used "love", is seen in the following:
Matthew 24:12: Under severe trial many will fall away.
1 Corinthians 9:26-27: The fight against sin is ongoing, with the possibility of rejection if we fail, if our love for the things of God becomes dull and ineffectual.
1 Timothy 4:1: Some will fall away from the truth.
2 Timothy 4:1: There is a judgement seat in the future when Christ returns, and salvation is not automatic.
1 Corinthians 4:4-5: we need to await the outcome of the judgement.
Matthew 7:21: Many will be rejected.
2 Timothy 4:6-7: Paul had been faithful, and note this is also an inspired comment.
2 Timothy 4:8: Paul recognises Jesus as a righteous judge, and that as a result he will be given the reward of everlasting life. Those also that love the return of Jesus, the appearing when he comes to establish the kingdom and reward the faithful will also receive everlasting life.
2 Timothy 4:10: For one reason or another, possibly the stress of the situation caused Demas to fail, his love waxed cold and he turned again to the world, even loved this world.

Kind regards
Trevor

I would offer as a reminder to be careful how we hear or say we do. We would not want to do despite the grace of Christ the price of our redemption.

Fall away in any of the verses you offered do not speak of a falling away never to rise again.

Falling way like may phrases from the bible can have two meanings .Like for instance. The god of this world the counterfeiter. What God calls one he calls many or what God calls many he calls one, what God calls light he calls darkness (ETC)

Like your first example below. It does not seem to teach a person will fall never rise the new life. or what some call lose a salvation that is not of us to begin with. But is a gift of His works or labor of love. Yoked with him he makes our load lighter with a living abiding hope of a new incorruptible body .

I would think the verse you offered below is warning to the believer many weaker brother and sister love will grow cold with the increased sin in the world. In other words, be strong in the lord and the power strength keep on that armor. Yoked with Him, He works with us in us then we can please him who strengthens us ..

Matthew24:12:And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold

Like when God called Galatians foolish remember the fool has said there is no God in their heart. In their unbelief as children of light the glory of God like a flower departed but the incorruptible seed remains. God called them foolish Galatians back re-establishing his glory represented in children of light (Christians)

Peter speaks of that representative glory that fell away but the incorruptible seed by which men are born from above abides.

1 Peter 1:23-25 King James Version Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Same kind of language “fall away” throughout the bible.

Genesis 45:24 So he sent his brethren away, and they departed: and he said unto them, See that ye fall not out by the way.

Jeremiah 8:4 Moreover thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the Lord; Shall they fall, and not arise? shall he turn away, and not return?

In a negative sense fall to never to rise to new life is crucifying Christ over and over every time they fall way.. . never coming to Christ .

Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Philippians establishes the law of faith. . Christ in us the hope of His glory .

Philippians 2: 13 -14For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

Jesus the Son of man did the will of the faither who worked in him will delight.

Both Jesus and Jonah the murmurer (three days and nights) are used in comparison. Again Jesus did it with delight. Jonah fell overboard, vomited out, kicked against the thorns all the way and desired to die rather than the outcome of Christ’s mercy through the preaching of the gospel (God is not served by human hands)

Same principle with Jonah below. . …… 1 Peter 1:23-25 and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you

Jonah 4:1-11 King James Version And the Lord God prepared a gourd, and made it to come up over Jonah, that it might be a shadow over his head, to deliver him from his grief. So Jonah was exceeding glad of the gourd. But God prepared a worm when the morning rose the next day, and it smote the gourd that it withered. And it came to pass, when the sun did arise, that God prepared a vehement east wind; and the sun beat upon the head of Jonah, that he fainted, and wished in himself to die, and said, It is better for me to die than to live. And God said to Jonah, Doest thou well to be angry for the gourd?

Better things than crucifying Christ over and over each time a person falls from grace accompanies those born again from above.

Hebrew 6 9-10 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak. For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister. And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Grace Accepted,

So in essence It is not God killing us, it is us choosing not to live.

I cannot understand your reasoning. God condemned Adam to return to the dust and all his descendants come under this category, as we all die. We are born mortal, subject to deterioration, corruption and death. The majority of mankind are in this category and few have heard the Gospel, except in a very partial manner, and most are not very interested in following this any further. The Gospel has been preached and some respond and if faithful will be given everlasting life in the Kingdom after the resurrection. Those that hear this Gospel and for some reason do not respond and do not live the faithful life will be subject to the Judgement Seat when Jesus returns, and if rejected they will suffer the Second Death. Most others are not responsible to the Judgement at the return but will remain in the dust. God is very much involved in man's fate, he established that death would be the outcome of Adam and his descendants because of his and their sin (as all have sinned except Jesus). God has delegated judgement to Jesus when he returns and Jesus will decide those who are rejected and thus return to the dust.
.
Kind Regards
Trevor

 

[Mr G Lee]

Greetings again Grace Accepted,

The rejected at the judgement seat will experience some suffering and later the second death. The majority of people are not subject to the judgement, but simply live their lives and die and return to the dust Genesis 3:19.

Kind regards
Trevor

All of mankind is subject to the judgment seat of Christ.

John 19:13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.

By faith (the unseen things of Gods labor of love ) we have stood at the judgment seat. The Son of man Jesus sat in our behalf.

We are informed in 1 Peter we receive the end of our salvation from the beginning. Not after some trial after we die that must come by digging up bones. Like the Cadaver Synod of Pope Formosa who was dead 7 months.

God does not say out of one side of his mouth “its appointed for every man to die once” and then the other side “beware of the second death”

It has to do with how the word “hell” is defined. In most denominations the meaning has been changed to reflect suffering even after taking ones last breath rather than the penalty for sin., Its appointed for all that in dying they come to end once.

There temporal bodies subject to the letter of the law (death) returns to the lifeless dust from which it was formed and the temporal spirit given under the letter “Thou shall not or you will die” returns to the father .

Those given a new incorruptible spirit they will rise on the last day a receive the promise a new body that will not age and die. All believers die not receiving it.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

There will be no mis-trial or double jeapordy. That kind of idea could only cast doubt and anything not of faith is to be avoided. Again there is no confidence in waiting for a second trial .

On the last day under the Sun the second death the letter of the law that kills it is cast in the judgment fire of God it death will not rise and condemn another whole creation.

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

The death of death. Death and its suffering called hell are cast on the last day under the Sun.

 

[Mr G Lee]

Greetings again Grace Accepted,

I cannot understand your reasoning. God condemned Adam to return to the dust and all his descendants come under this category, as we all die. We are born mortal, subject to deterioration, corruption and death. The majority of mankind are in this category and few have heard the Gospel, except in a very partial manner, and most are not very interested in following this any further. The Gospel has been preached and some respond and if faithful will be given everlasting life in the Kingdom after the resurrection. Those that hear this Gospel and for some reason do not respond and do not live the faithful life will be subject to the Judgement Seat when Jesus returns, and if rejected they will suffer the Second Death. Most others are not responsible to the Judgement at the return but will remain in the dust. God is very much involved in man's fate, he established that death would be the outcome of Adam and his descendants because of his and their sin (as all have sinned except Jesus). God has delegated judgement to Jesus when he returns and Jesus will decide those who are rejected and thus return to the dust.
.
Kind Regards
Trevor

Define the "second death" and "hell" how do they work together. Keeping in mind its appointed to all to die once? will the bones of the dead be lifted up and judged . Or are you defining hell like a Catholic limbo or purgatory the only way out more suffering ?

Once the word hell (suffering) is defined properly the rest falls into place

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, (not twice) but after this the judgment:

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings Mr G Lee,

Define the "second death" and "hell" how do they work together.
Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

I understand that at the end of the 1000 years death will be abolished. Those that have died during the 1000 years will have been raised and judged and some will be rejected and suffer their second death and the faithful will be granted eternal life. After this there will be no more death and no need of graves. Revelation 20:14 uses very graphical terms to describe what 1 Corinthians 15:26 clearly states.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Mr G Lee]

Greetings Mr G Lee,

I understand that at the end of the 1000 years death will be abolished. Those that have died during the 1000 years will have been raised and judged and some will be rejected and suffer their second death and the faithful will be granted eternal life. After this there will be no more death and no need of graves. Revelation 20:14 uses very graphical terms to describe what 1 Corinthians 15:26 clearly states.

Kind regards
Trevor

If it's appointed for all men to die once, why would a person believe in a second death or another trial. we receive the end of our salvation from the beginning. If there is going to be a second trial how would that build confidence in the grace of Christ?

Has not Christ the lamb of God sat in the place of judgment seat in our stead?

I say it's the death of death the letter of the law (the Bible) it kills it will not rise up and destroy another whole creation

2 Corinthians 3:5-6 King James VersionNot that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;Who also hath made us able ministers of the New Testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.


Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

​

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings Mr G Lee,

If it's appointed for all men to die once, why would a person believe in a second death or another trial. we receive the end of our salvation from the beginning. If there is going to be a second trial how would that build confidence in the grace of Christ?

Those that have heard the Gospel live their lives, whether they have responded or not, or have lived their lives in conformity to the Gospel or not. These are the responsible people and they will be resurrected and judged, and the faithful will be given everlasting life, while the unfaithful will suffer for a while and then die their second death. 2 Timothy 4:1,6-7,8. Those that have not significantly heard the Gospel will live their life and then die and return to the dust.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Mr G Lee]

Greetings Mr G Lee,

Those that have heard the Gospel live their lives, whether they have responded or not, or have lived their lives in conformity to the Gospel or not. These are the responsible people and they will be resurrected and judged, and the faithful will be given everlasting life, while the unfaithful will suffer for a while and then die their second death. 2 Timothy 4:1,6-7,8. Those that have not significantly heard the Gospel will live their life and then die and return to the dust.

Kind regards
Trevor

Hi Thanks for the reply..

One death for flesh and blood mankind.

In Genesis God corrupted the whole creation when His glory departed. Because of that the whole creation suffers daily in pains to be born again from above. Daily suffering the pangs of hell (dying). Daily we seek the daily bread.

Genesis 6:12 And God looked upon the earth, and behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

The first and final death for mankind. The Bible called “the letter of the law” it kills informing us we are guilty.

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

We should keep in mind our born-again confidence. The idea that Christians will be judged twice and possibly die twice is not a biblical idea.

What you are offering only creates doubt a place or foot-hold for the spirit of error the father of lies. . . needing to create doubt to continue to accuse the brethren day and night 24-7 .

Believers have the full confidence in respect to His first labor of His love giving us ears to hear and a new heart to desire the unseen things of God, yoked with him the burden is lighter .

His grace is sufficient the power of grace is made complete in our flesh destroying sin in the flesh giving us a desire to serve His Spirit that works in the believer .

Philippians 1:6King James Version Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

How he works his labor of love in us is testified in the following chapter. Informing the Christians God is not served by the dying hands of mankind in any way shape or form.

Jesus the son of man did the fathers will with delight .Jonah kicked against the thorns all the way and wanted to die knowing God would have mercy on the Ninevites .A humbling message to Jonah and warning to the murmurers.

Philippians 2: 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

It I believe confirms the warning in so much that some say we need a man to teach us (1 John 2 antichrists) which is another teaching authority other than all things written in the law and prophets (.the Bible) rather than the teaching minstry of the promised Holy Spirit that the father promised to send.

We receive the end of our new born again faith from the beginning. . the salvation of our souls. Just like the Old Testament saints no room for doubt or wondering. Saying to Nicodemus to marvel not .Marveling wondering is not beliveing it can be a form of doubt

Doubt is not the opposite of faith. . unbelief or "no fatih" is .

In those parables they teach us how to walk by faith after the unseen things of God. The ceremonial laws testified ahead sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow as shadows they were fulfilled at the time of the first century reformation.(Hebrews 9)

Remember the kingdom of God does not come by observing the temporal things seen.in that way there must be heresies or differences in opinion (personal commentaries) among the believers ..No such thing as non-denominational .

God is the father of all nations in the world. The word Abraham denotes the “father of many nations”. Formally Abram the father of one .His own family or nation .

Beautifull gospel parable .

1 Peter 1: 7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven, which things the angels desire to look into.

Christians look back to that glory the old testement saints looked ahead by the same Spirit of Christ faith as it is written. . that which works mutually in all sons of God.

The second death the death of death the letter of the law . . death itself .